[TheForge] Cylinder Size

Tue Jul 15 10:49:01 2003

He means the bottom pilot valve is linked by a lever or cable to the treadle
so when the treadle is pressed it moves the bottom pilot, I also had the
same idea when I was building my hammer, I mentioned it here and a few
seemed to think it would add complexity and would really benefit much, after
running the hammer for  a couple of years I think I agree.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: 15 July, 2003 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size

> Hey Randy,
> I'm pretty familiar with how single and double pilot valves work, but your
> comment "would control where the valve was tripped with the treadle, just
an
> idea for
> more control of the hammer", sound intriguing but leaves me confused as to
> how it would work.
> Sort of like telling me how to remove a car engine: 1. lift hood 2. Remove
> engine.
> Can you elaborate.
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "R.C.Mundt" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 10:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
>
>
> > Hi Chuck;
> > If the lower pilot valve( the one that tells the hammer to go up) is
> tripped
> > near the top of the stroke or if you're using a valve setup w/ one pilot
> > valve and spring return, a short burst of air sends the hammer down then
> the
> > bottom side of the cylinder starts filling to raise the hammer, so the
> > hammer beats fast and light.  If the lower pilot valve is triped at the
> > bottom of the stroke air pres. drives the hammer clear to the bottom
then
> > the air reverses and raises the hammer , it beats slow and hard. I
thought
> I
> > would control where the valve was tripped with the treadle, just an idea
> for
> > more control of the hammer.
> > Randy Mundt
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, July 14, 2003 11:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> >
> >
> > > Hey Randy,
> > > I'm confused. Could you elaborate and more clearly state your idea so
I
> > can
> > > understand it?
> > > Chuck
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "R.C.Mundt" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 11:24 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > >
> > >
> > > > Just a thought I had if I ever got around to building an air hammer.
I
> > > > thought I would control the position of the lower pilot valve w/ the
> > > > treadle, after the throttle valve was wide open further depressing
the
> > > > treadle would move the pilot valve downward.
> > > > Randy Mundt
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 4:20 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Hey Shannell,
> > > > > I'm slowly building a 200 lb air hammer.
> > > > > I don't like the cantilevered hammer slide on the kinyon hammer,
so
> I
> > > > > designed the head to reciprocate inside a vertical square tube
> shell.
> > > The
> > > > > rectangular head has 2 guide grooves milled on opposite sides and
> they
> > > > slide
> > > > > on adjustable steel rails attached to the corresponding inner
faces
> of
> > > the
> > > > > tube. The top adjusting bolts of the guide rails will have a small
> > hole
> > > > > drilled thru the long axis of the bolt to provide lubrication to
the
> > > > sliding
> > > > > surfaces of the hammer head. Since there is no side loading on the
> > head
> > > > wear
> > > > > will be minimal.
> > > > > The only problem I fore see with this design, is where to mount
the
> > > > > adjustable bottom pilot valve, hence the desirability of using a
> > > pneumatic
> > > > > stroke completion sensor.
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Shannell Sugrue" <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 9:13 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I use the dual pilot setup and its great, hits hard, fast and is
> > > easily
> > > > > > adjustable on the fly. I think any type of "stroke completion
> > sensor"
> > > > > might
> > > > > > be overkill, I often slide my roller valves when working or when
> > > putting
> > > > a
> > > > > > piece under the hammer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Chuck Robinson" <[email protected]>
> > > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > > Sent: 12 July, 2003 9:13 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > One of the problems I've noticed is the relatively soft hit if
> the
> > > > > Kinyon
> > > > > > > style hammers.
> > > > > > >  I suspect the automatic reversing switch in the single pilot
> > > control
> > > > is
> > > > > > > valve is the culprit, since the piston switches direction
before
> > the
> > > > > > hammer
> > > > > > > hits the billet. This also reduces dwell time of the hammer on
> the
> > > > > billet.
> > > > > > > A double pilot control valve will eliminate this problem but
the
> > > > bottom
> > > > > > > pilot valve must be adjusted for the billet thickness.
> > > > > > > Is there any brave soul out there who has played around with
> > stroke
> > > > > > > completion sensors to maximize hammer dwell time and
> automatically
> > > > > adjust
> > > > > > > for stock thickness?
> > > > > > > Chuck
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 2:13 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Cylinder Size
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you go with a larger bore on the cylinder you would need
to
> > > also
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > the ports on the cylinder and and the valve be as large as
> > > > possible.The
> > > > > > > trick is the amount of air flow you can get through the system
> as
> > > fast
> > > > > as
> > > > > > > you can get.You can have a large bore cylinder with big ports
> but
> > if
> > > > the
> > > > > > > valve ports are small and have a low cv rating then it will
not
> > > cycle
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > fast.I have a 2" bore cylinder on my 25lbr with 3/8" ports on
> both
> > > the
> > > > > > > valve(which also has a high cv rate)and cylinder.it will do
240
> > > beats
> > > > > > > /minute before that I had the same style valve with 1/4" ports
> and
> > a
> > > > > lower
> > > > > > > cv and could only get 180 beats/minute
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Bob
> > > > > > > > HotAnvil Forge
> > > > > > > > http://members.tripod.com/hotanvil_forge
> > > > > > > >
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