[TheForge] treadle hammer design (was: treadle hammeranvils)

Fri Jan 24 07:25:00 2003

Here's another thought. If the counterweight is just like a see-
saw, on the straight arm of the driving head, it would end up in 
the "top" position when the hammer hits the work. How about 
arranging it so that the counterweight arm is short, and parallel 
to the floor when the hammer is hitting. Then you'd get the most 
benefit from gravity on the return. And it would "weigh" less when 
starting the stroke.

As Pete said, there is still some loss in the transmission, no 
matter how the masses are arranged. A shorter counterweight arm 
take some flex out of the system. Now I'm thinking some wheel 
instead of an arm.

Someday I may actually build one of these instead of think about 
it :-)

-Marc

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Peter Fels and Phoebe Palmer <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Date:  Fri, 24 Jan 2003 01:27:50 -0800

>At 12:27 PM 1/23/03, you wrote:
>
>
>I was wrong when i said that a split weight ( counterbalancing ) 
would be 
>slower..misread, sorry.
>But if the hammer head only had 1/2 the weight  it would be less 
efficient 
>because the mechanism would absorb some of the blow. Think of how 
much 
>difference there is  just working on the heel VS the middle of 
the anvil 
>face.  When the hammer isn't directly above the work and/or the 
anvil mass 
>isn't directly below the work, considerable loss is the result. 
To get the 
>same forging effect, the counterbalanced assembly would have to 
be 
>considerably heavier than a conventional sprung TH. It would, 
however, have 
>some compensating virtues. If nothing else, those tensioned 
springs spook 
>me. Garage door springs kill people.
>Larry, why bother with a light spring? just shift the 
counterweight out a 
>little.....Pete
>
>
>
>
>>Like a teeter toter?
>>Saw one of those in a website with some Asian content. Two kids 
stood on 
>>the back. Rails on the side of the beam so they. When a hit was 
callled 
>>for they just pushed down on the beam. Yeah could work if yoou 
have smart 
>>weights.
>>  DragonsWatch <[email protected]> wrote:I have looked 
at the 
>> designs of several different styles of treadle hammer. And they 
all seem 
>> to have one thing in common, some sort of lever and large 
springs which 
>> lift the hammer, and a treadle to over come the springs and 
lower the 
>> hammer. So I ask, what would be the result if the springs were 
replaced 
>> with a weight great enough to balance the hammer. Then a light 
spring 
>> could lift the hammer. Say a conventional design has a hammer 
of 50# and 
>> the operator can accelerate that weight to say 5 fps and the 
travel is 8 
>> inches. You would have an
>>impact of XXX pounds per sq. inch. If you had a hammer where the 
head was 
>>balanced, say 25# hammer and 25# counterweight, would it not 
strike at the 
>>same pounds per sq. inch when moving at 5 fps?
>>This does require the ram and the weight be rigid to each other. 
The point 
>>being is that you still have 50# of mass in motion, and the 
energy is 
>>transferred in the blow, not in the motion of the head. Seems 
somewhere it 
>>is written that a mass in motion will remain in motion, or 
something like 
>>that. Just something to think about. I'm sure I am over looking 
some 
>>obvious law of physics that says this is not how things work.
>>
>>Larry
>>
>>
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