[TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.

Mon Jan 13 00:08:01 2003

Ene bichizh ogsen baina shuu...

> From: [email protected]
> [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Phlip
> Phlip,
>
> Now that was a complete answer if ever there was one.  I will copy that to
> my client if that is ok, and along with what I have already told him, I'm
> sure he can chose a good solution.  I don't understand the term " T join
the
> links".  Could you or your friend explain, bearing in mind the design of
the
> chain. We would like to keep the design if possible.  Would the phosphor
> bronze be strong enough without the links welded at the ends?
>
> Many thanks
>
> Harry

I'll hafta check with Rob, but I won't get be able to get an answer back
from him until Tuesday evening- he's already gone to bed, and tomorrow is a
duty day, ie an all-nighter. At the time, we hadn't looked at the chain, we
were bout thinking standard chain, but I'd think you could tack weld the
back of the S where it hits, or at least closely approaches, the shaft. But,
I'll ask him when he gets back.

Phlip

 If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably not a
cat.

Never a horse that cain't be rode,
And never a rider who cain't be throwed....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rusty Dog Forge" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: RE: [TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.

>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
>
> > Harry
>
> My roommate is familiar with these materials- he's a plumber on a nuclear
> sub. I'm going to let him take over the computer, and give you his input.
>
> Phlip
>
> ####################################################
>
> Hi, I'm Rob.
>
> There are three qiick options that I can give you. All are viable but
> involve different degrees of labor and different techniques of metal work.
>
> 1. Use real copper. Best to cast links as a seamless unit and separate
them
> into a chain. Could use rod and bend, but run the risk of brittle
fracture.
> and end up with a seam line that is a weak point even with tig welding.
> Copper has a low tensile strength and to achieve a safe load of 150% of
> working load, you will need to go with 7/16" or 1/2" diameter.
>
> 2. Use phosphor bronze. The material looks like copper, especialy when
aged.
> It has two advantages. Firsrt, it is available in rod stock and can be
> formed into links by hot working the metal. You can "T" joint the links,
but
> I still recommend tig welding. Seond advantage is tensile strength.
Phosphor
> bronze is significantly stronger than copper. You can safely get away with
> 5/16" or 3/8" diameter stock. We used to use this stuff for anchor chain.
>
> 3. Gun Metal. No, I am not talking about steel. Naval gun metal is a
copper
> nickel alloy that has a lot of desirable properties as far as tensile
> strength, workability and looks. It is extremely close to copper in color
> and gets a great patina with age. It is available in rod stock and may be
> formed in a manner similar to phospher bronze. Down sides- a. expensive-
not
> much call for it these days, so it costs. b. can you say respirator? I
> thought you could. A portion of the nickel fractions out during hot
working,
> and you need an organic filter resperator to prevent metal poisoning.
>
>  As far as plating or painting a steel chain goes, well there are a couple
> problems. First, with plating, the metal must be abslolutly clean
(pickled)
> prior to plating for proper adhesion. The plating process its self is
highly
> toxic, and in an environment with moderately high temperatures and
humidity
> (read kitchen) dissimilar metal corrosion will be accelerated. Give
plating
> a two year life span, at the most.
>
> As for paint, anything that has a high enough metal content to look right
> will also have problems with the steel, unless the steel has been
> passivated. You also have to take into account the hardness of the paint.
> The higher the solids content, the more brittle the paint. Not a problem
in
> a static application, but where you have load bearing and potential
> movement, the problem of chipping and peeling exists.
>
> Hopefully this will be helpful. Give Phlip feedback on results.
>
>
>  If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is probably not a
> cat.
>
> Never a horse that cain't be rode,
> And never a rider who cain't be throwed....
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "H and P Foster" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:32 AM
> Subject: RE: [TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.
>
>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
> > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of Peter Fels and
> > Phoebe Palmer
> > Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 12:09 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.
> >
> >
> > At 03:10 PM 1/12/03, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd suggest a silicon or phosphor bronze..both are copper like in color
> and
> > significantly stronger...especially the phosphor bronze.
> > How bout a small decorative band to hold the S ends in place?//////Pete
> >
> >
> >
> > >Go steel and paint it, there are some amazing copper paints available
> which
> > >even naturally patinate, indistinguishable from copper to me, I guess
> > forged
> > >copper looks well "forged" though so that might be harder to replicate,
> > tell
> > >him its cheaper and stronger and you should convince him.
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "H and P Foster" <[email protected]>
> > >To: "the forge" <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: 11 January, 2003 6:48 PM
> > >Subject: [TheForge] Here is a good question. Hard to believe also.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > A potential client is interested in me making some of my decorative
> > chain
> > > > http://pages.infinit.net/rustydog/chain1.htm to hang his wifes new
pot
> > >rack.
> > > > So far so good.
> > > >
> > > > He then says that the pot rack and cast iron pots will weigh 1000
> > pounds.
> > > > I write back asking if he put one too many zeros on his figure.
> > > > Nope......1000 pounds it is.  He also wants the chain in copper.
> > > >
> > > > I suggested I make a few links out of 3/8" copper round stock and he
> can
> > > > have it tested for the load and that the responsibility will be his
> > alone.
> > > > The rack will hang from 4 points.
> > > >
> > > > Do you think the copper of this dimension will be strong enough, or
> > should
> > >I
> > > > suggest copper plated iron links instead?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for any help or ideas.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Harry Foster
> > > > Rusty Dog Forge
> > > > http://pages.infinit.net/rustydog/home.htm
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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