[TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies

Sun Sep 1 09:47:01 2002

Yes.

Mike Graf

Nancy & Jim Jordan wrote:
> 
> Are we letting our infrastructure be destroyed from within?
> Sad times.
> Jim
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ray Miller" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> 
> > Ralph,
> > It's worse than that. Not only are we losing our manufacturing base, we
> > are also killing off our intellectual development. For example, GE
> > Aircraft Engines is shipping all their engineering development effort to
> > engineering companies in India, Pakistan, etc. GEAE has also transferred
> > their accounts receivable function to India, and their purchasing to
> > Mexico. Proctor and Gamble has shipped their Global Business Services to
> > Costa Rica (Human Resources, accounting, etc.) and they are actually
> > selling that part of the business to an outside firm.
> >
> > If we ever really get into a real war effort we're screwed!!
> >
> > Ray Miller
> > Cincinnati
> >
> > Ralph Sproul wrote:
> >
> > >        Ray,  Thanks for the sad history lesson......... it's depressing
> to
> > >hear about all our declining manufacturing base.   If we ever have to
> gear
> > >up for something.....we'll have to get the gears from China or Tiawan.
> :-(
> > >
> > >Ralph
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Ray Miller" <[email protected]>
> > >To: <[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 10:15 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> > >
> > >
> > >>Jim,
> > >>You are right. They built the best machine tools, they built the best
> > >>robots, they built the best grinders, lathes, etc. etc.
> > >>But they are GONE!!!
> > >>
> > >>I worked there for a short time when I was optimistic that a turn around
> > >>might be possible. The last member of the Geier family to run the
> > >>company was still there. The week before he retired he joined me and my
> > >>customer (Boeing Construction Services to name drop) at lunch. at one
> > >>point during lunch I asked him if he was looking forward to retirement.
> > >>He responded that he had been looking forward to retirement since his
> > >>first day there. He was the great grandson of the founder of Cincinnati
> > >>Screw and Tap, which later became Cincinnati Milling Machine which later
> > >>became Cincinnati Milacron.
> > >>
> > >>Over the last decade Cincinnati Milcaron sold off their robot division,
> > >>closed the lathe division, sold the CNC products division, sold Valenite
> > >>division, sold the semiconductor division, sold ILM (their laser machine
> > >>business), closed their machining center plant in Fountain Inn, SC, and
> > >>the last major disection was selling off the original main plant in
> > >>Cincinnati to Unova. Unova has since sold off most of the land and
> > >>buildings which have been demolished for of course........a Sam's Club,
> > >>a Target, a Dodge/Kia dealership and lots of parking!!!!
> > >>
> > >>A sin for sure!!!
> > >>
> > >>Ray
> > >>Cincinnati
> > >>
> > >>Nancy & Jim Jordan wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>Cincinnati Milacron is gone!???
> > >>>Oh, the shame of today's world.
> > >>>I never thought it could happen.
> > >>>I guess making the best product isn't enough anymore.
> > >>>Cin-mil made great tools, grinding wheel etc.
> > >>>It is a real loss.
> > >>>Jim Jordan
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > >>>From: <[email protected]>
> > >>>To: <[email protected]>
> > >>>Sent: Friday, August 30, 2002 7:34 AM
> > >>>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>Bill,
> > >>>>That is a regular dilemma in many areas of life. How many of us check
> > >>>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >>>tags of the clothes we wear and do not purchase things made in China,
> > >>>Pakistan, India, etc. with child or slave labor.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Many times on this list people have discussed Harbor Freight Tools and
> > >>>>
> > >>>their source. Yet they are a thriving resource to many on this list.
> > >>>
> > >>>>In my mind what American Bending represents is the path any viable
> > >>>>
> > >company
> > >
> > >>>should take. Yes Hossfeld developed the tools and designs. But they
> have
> > >>>settled into a comfort zome of doing what they  have always done taking
> > >>>
> > >no
> > >
> > >>>advantage of improvements in materials or process.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Yes, I think applying CNC is using new technology. If the only result
> is
> > >>>>
> > >a
> > >
> > >>>cheaper product with the same quality, in the eyes of the market,
> that's
> > >>>
> > >a
> > >
> > >>>new product.
> > >>>
> > >>>>Many other US business icons have disappeared as a result of stagnant
> > >>>>
> > >>>business cultures, practices or ideas.
> > >>>
> > >>>>How many of you remember the glory days of Cincinnati's machine tool
> > >>>>
> > >>>industry?
> > >>>
> > >>>>Cincinnati Milling Machine, later called Cincinnati Milacron - GONE
> > >>>>Cincinnati Gilbert - almost gone
> > >>>>Giddings and Lewis - Gone
> > >>>>LaBlond lathes - Gone
> > >>>>and the list goes on, for Cincinnati and other cities with their own
> > >>>>
> > >>>specific industries.
> > >>>
> > >>>>A business or company needs to adopt new ideas keep learning how to do
> > >>>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >>>job better or else get passed by.
> > >>>
> > >>>>As blacksmiths we are all committed to learned new skills, adopting
> new
> > >>>>
> > >>>processes, new tools and always interested in improving our skills and
> > >>>
> > >the
> > >
> > >>>fruits of out labor. Do any of us think that we are good enough to stop
> > >>>learning???
> > >>>
> > >>>>Ray Miller
> > >>>>Cincinnati
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>From: Woolley <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>Date: 2002/08/29 Thu PM 10:54:06 EDT
> > >>>>>To: Forge list <[email protected]>
> > >>>>>Subject: [TheForge] Hossfeld Bender and Dies
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Greetings,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>I finally found a used #2 Hossfeld right in my backyard, quite by
> > >>>>>accident that I got for a good price.  It came with one set of
> > >>>>>dies(1.25" tube steel) so I need to buy some for flats.  I have
> > >>>>>
> > >American
> > >
> > >>>>>Benders literature with price list as well as Hossfeld literature
> with
> > >>>>>
> > >a
> > >
> > >>>>>distributor with stock also in my backyard.  Reviewing and comparing
> > >>>>>prices between the two companies has brought me to consider what I
> > >>>>>consider an ethical question that I'll put to the list to see how
> > >>>>>
> > >others
> > >
> > >>>>>feel just out of curiosity, not to judge other peoples ethics.
> > >>>>>
> > >Hossfeld
> > >
> > >>>>>developes, patents, and markets a very useful, economical bending
> tool
> > >>>>>with an adequate, varied set of dies for years with much success.
> > >>>>>
> > >Patent
> > >
> > >>>>>runs out, ex employee copies the whole deal, markets as improved
> > >>>>>
> > >because
> > >
> > >>>>>of CNC technology, and cheaper to buy to end user.  Now in all
> fairness
> > >>>>>to the new guys, I have not seen their dies.  But looking at and
> having
> > >>>>>used a  Hossfeld, we are not really talking a sophisticated (as far
> as
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>from a manufacturing standpoint) piece of equipment here.  Does
> having
> > >>>>
> > >a
> > >
> > >>>>>CNC guided machine really benefit the end user?  The holes and pins
> and
> > >>>>>castings etc. on the original seem perfectly fine.  Is it the price?
> > >>>>>
> > >My
> > >
> > >>>>>search hasn't found the new guys to be significantly better.  Let me
> > >>>>>stress,  I have absolutely no malice nor ill feeling toward the
> > >>>>>principals in this new venture, just trying to decide whether or not
> to
> > >>>>>support a company who probably hasn't built a better mouse trap.  In
> > >>>>>
> > >any
> > >
> > >>>>>case, I'm looking for die sets.  Used is always an option. Anybody?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>Regards,
> > >>>>>Bill Woolley
> > >>>>>_______________________________________________
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