[TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer

Sat Dec 7 13:39:00 2002

I machined the bore in the valve body with a CNC mill. Then I turned the
valve on a lathe. The body was aluminum and the valve was steel. I turned
the valve to a slip fit. I didn't do any honing or lapping. With a little
oil on the valve and the end plates in place, the air leak was just
detectable. Not enough to bother anything. There is a lot of area to slow
any air leak.

Darrell

----- Original Message -----
From: "Shannell Sugrue" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer

>
> But I didnt read your message properly because you did use honing in this
> case! :) sorry I didnt read more carefully
> I wouldve thought lapping with the parts themselves would have giving a
more
> perfect fit?
>
>
> > That is really honeing, I dont think it could be used in this case,
> lapping
> > is more about using the parts involved to make a perfect fit using a
fine
> > abrasiive compound and moving the parts over one another.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bob Smolen" <[email protected]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: 06 December, 2002 7:29 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> >
> >
> > > Steve,
> > > I am not an expert at lapping, but a brake cylinder lap can be used.
You
> > can
> > > buy them for around 15.00 at auto parts store. They have three prongs
> > which
> > > have a small stone at the end. As the lap spins, the prongs spread
> outward
> > > to force the stones against the surface being honed..Chuck the lap in
a
> > > drill and get at it. I did this to smooth the surface of the bored
hole
> > thru
> > > which the spools rotate.
> > > I also cobbled a lap by drilling a hole in the long axis of a scrap
> round
> > > that was near the size of the valve hole. I made some cuts lengthwise
at
> > the
> > > bottom end of the round. I wrapped sand paper around the round and
drove
> a
> > > tapered rod into the hole I drilled so it would cause a little
expansion
> > > after it was inserted in the hole. I turned a small diameter on the
> other
> > > end of the round so it would fit in the drill chuck. I probably could
> have
> > > gotten by with this lap , but the brake cyl. lap was easy to use.
> > > Bob
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 8:03 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> > >
> > >
> > > > No plans, just his booklet on how Nazel's work with a few pages on
his
> > > > prototype.
> > > >
> > > > It looks like spool valves might work; if not, I'm going to have to
> > > > figure out lapping.
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > lama wrote:
> > > > > Steve, I don't know about yardsticks, but I don't think that one
> > > > > can compare Kinyons & Nazels. It's like apples & oranges.
> > > > > I would love to have a Nazel,,,, and if I could find one in
> > > > > working order for $1,000 I would grab it. I guess that the bottom
> > > > > line here is that we are talking about folks building their own
air
> > > hammers.
> > > > > The Nazel is not a homemade hammer, the Krause & Kinyon are.
> > > > > Kinyon = (no machining necessary) (you need a compressor)
> > > > > Krause = (advanced machining skills required) (you need a lathe
> etc.)
> > > > > Now if Krause would offer the plans AND sell "the valve", I'll bet
> > that
> > > > > he would have a lot of business. I know that I would seriously
> > consider
> > > > > using that system on my big hammer, but I don't have any machining
> > > > > skills and I don't have a lathe.  I still haven't found out if
there
> > are
> > > > > published plans available. Where? how much?
> > > > >
> > > > > dave m
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> > > > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > > > Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 8:46 AM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >>It sounds like my Kinyon comments are being taken as critical of
the
> > > > >>design. That was not at all my intention. I realize the hammer can
> do
> > > > >>lots of useful work, and certainly respect Kinyon's contribution.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>The way I think about the difference between the hammers (please
add
> > or
> > > > >>subtract as you folks see it) is as follows:
> > > > >>A Kinyon is like moving a ball bearing with a yardstick. The
bearing
> > > > >>moves just fine, but when you try to reverse it, it takes a bit to
> > > > >>regain control.
> > > > >>A Nazel is like moving a ball bearing with two yardsticks, one on
> each
> > > > >>side. You can put it right where you want it.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>The ball bearing is the hammer head, of course, yardsticks are
air.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Hey, please keep up this discussion; I'll be out of town until
> > Thursday.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Steve
> > > > >>
> > > > >>lama wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>>air through the spool valve to the top of the cylinder, forcing
it
> > > down.
> > > > >>
> > > > > A
> > > > >
> > > > >>>little
> > > > >>>exhaust causes a little movement of the cylinder (ram, head, top
> die)
> > > > >>
> > > > > and a
> > > > >
> > > > >>>light tap. A heavy foot on the exhaust valve (treadle) causes a
> heavy
> > > > >>
> > > > > blow.
> > > > >
> > > > >>>This hammer hits a lot harder than my 50# Little Giant ever did.
> The
> > > > >>>downward
> > > > >>>movement of the ram activates a pilot switch. The pilot switch
> tells
> > > the
> > > > >>>spool
> > > > >>>valve to rout the air to the bottom side of the cylinder, thus
> > forcing
> > > > >>
> > > > > the
> > > > >
> > > > >>>cylinder
> > > > >>>upward and activating the pilot switch once again which tells the
> > spool
> > > > >>>valve to
> > > > >>>rout the air to the top of the cylinder, thus forcing the
downward
> > > > >>
> > > > > stroke
> > > > >
> > > > >>>and
> > > > >>>the cycle keeps repeating. The Kinyon hammer does not have the
> > ability
> > > > >>
> > > > > to
> > > > >
> > > > >>>clamp & hold a piece of work. Bob Bergman's "KA-75" can do that
> quite
> > > > >>
> > > > > well
> > > > >
> > > > >>>as will the "Blue" but @ $4,000, they are out of my price range.
> The
> > > > >>
> > > > > Kinyon
> > > > >
> > > > >>>is
> > > > >>>not a Nazel or a Chambersburg or any of the Chinese / Turkish
Nazel
> > > > >>>knock-offs.
> > > > >>>They cost $8k - $30k and are way out of my price range. The
Kinyon
> > cost
> > > > >>>about $1,000 or less depending on your local scrap yard. The
bottom
> > > line
> > > > >>
> > > > > is
> > > > >
> > > > >>>that
> > > > >>>the Kinyon design works quite well and there are lots of them
> around.
> > I
> > > > >>
> > > > > can
> > > > >
> > > > >>>think
> > > > >>>of 7 Kinyons in a 100 mile radius.
> > > > >>>I am not down on the Krause hammer at all. In fact I think that
> it's
> > > > >>>probably a
> > > > >>>great idea. I would love to see plans because there is still time
> to
> > > > >>
> > > > > make my
> > > > >
> > > > >>>big
> > > > >>>hammer in that manner.
> > > > >>>dave m
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>>From: "Steve Smith" <[email protected]>
> > > > >>>To: <[email protected]>
> > > > >>>Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 6:15 PM
> > > > >>>Subject: Re: [TheForge] Krause/Nazel type air hammer
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>>Well, I'd like something larger than my current 25 pound LG.
This
> > gets
> > > > >>>>into a 5-7.5HP compressor pretty quickly from what I hear.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>I don't mean to bad mouth the Kinyon design; from what I
> understand
> > > (I'm
> > > > >>>>hoping Dave M. will jump in and improve me), Kinyon's push on
one
> > side
> > > > >>>>of the piston, then push on the other side. You can do a lot of
> work
> > > on
> > > > >>>>this style hammer, but it doesn't seem like you have a lot of
> > control
> > > of
> > > > >>>>the ram position.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>Steve
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>_______________________________________________
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