[SixClub] New to Six Meters
kg4ssy at comcast.net
kg4ssy at comcast.net
Tue Jan 18 18:10:10 EST 2005
Is this a misprint? 3000' and 10,000' of tower? Do you use a helicopter to do your antenna work?? heh-heh-heh
-------------- Original message --------------
> Very good, Steve. We understand each other then. I am certainly one who
> believes in big antennas and many of them! (I currently have 3,000' of
> tower, have another 10,000' of tower coming soon, hope to put up a couple
> thousand feet of it, with multiple antennas and stacks on all the HF bands,
> and some serious VHF and UHF stuff too!)
>
> The flip side is that this guy is asking what he "needs." To me, "need" is
> a very strong word. And there is a tendency for a lot of people to tell a
> new guy he needs bigger and better stuff. I appreciate that that's nice to
> have, but I hate to discourage beginners by telling them they need bigger
> stuff; it's better to get on with whatever you have, the point I tried to
> make about my low 6M dipole. I could still work stuff; it worked pretty
> well. As good as a yagi? No, except that it was relatively
> omnidirectional, which has advantages. So, if the new guy needs a yagi, he
> also needs a rotator, most people will tell him that on a vent pipe on a low
> roof isn't high enough, etc., so he's going to get the impression he needs a
> tower that's at least X height, etc.
>
> A couple engineers I know who are well known hams would typically and
> predictably come back to the original poster with, "It totally depends on
> what you want to do with it." I tried to touch on that point. It depends.
> I could have gotten more detailed. Taking your message as a takeoff point,
> for example, I could have said, "If you want to talk to your buddy a few
> miles away, if you want to maybe work DX a few days a year when the band is
> open, the vertical will be okay. If you want to work stuff out to a few
> hundred miles every day of the year (trying to very briefly summarize what
> you said I think), then you need more.
>
> Though HF is my main thing and my experience on VHF is more limited, my own
> "thing" on 6M, for instance, is not to work New York every day, but to get
> on when there's a good opening happening. That is what 6M is for me and I
> suspect for many others. It's the openings that are fun, and at those times
> even the most basic antennas can work. Not as well as something big, but
> they're adequate.
>
> Now, if this guy had asked the question differently, like, "I have $1,000 to
> spend for antennas for 6M; what should I get?" that's a different question.
> Then I think I would have said a C7I yagi, a reliable rotator, and a 50'
> tower, something like that.
>
> Anyway, it sounds like we're in agreement but we've made different points,
> we have different emphases.
> Mine: Depends on what you want to do. If you have simple wants the
> vertical will be fine. Getting on with what you have is better than not
> getting on because you can't afford or can't get around to getting something
> better.
> Yours: The yagi will allow you to do more every day rather than wait for 25
> days of openings per year.
>
> 73 - Rich KE3Q
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Katz"
> To: "'World Wide Six Meter Club'" ; "'Mike (KA5CVH)
> Urich'"
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 2:30 PM
> Subject: RE: [SixClub] New to Six Meters
>
>
> > Hi Rich,
> >
> > My comments weren't aimed at you, they were in response to the original
> > post
> > about 6m antennas, and for general delivery for list members.
> >
> > No problem with what you posted, at all -- although I always "encourage"
> > people to put all their marbles in the antenna basket, ahead of any other
> > investments in six meters or weak signal VHF work in general, as the
> > R.O.I.
> > with antennas is by far higher than with any other station improvement any
> > of us can make. I doubt anyone would disagree!
> >
> > 73
> >
> > Steve WB2WIK/6
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: RICHARD BOYD [mailto:ke3q at msn.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 11:20 AM
> > To: World Wide Six Meter Club; 'Mike (KA5CVH) Urich'
> > Subject: Re: [SixClub] New to Six Meters
> >
> >
> > I stand by what I said. I see no contradiction. 73 - Rich, KE3Q
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Steve Katz"
> > To: "'World Wide Six Meter Club'" ; "'Mike
> > (KA5CVH)
> >
> > Urich'"
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:30 PM
> > Subject: RE: [SixClub] New to Six Meters
> >
> >
> > > I've written this many times, but some missed it and for some I think it
> > > just doesn't sink in. VHF is very different from HF. If you want to
> > > make
> > > contacts only when the "band's open" on six, you won't be busy very many
> > > days a year. Having good antennas is mostly for the *OTHER* 340 days a
> > > year, when the band is *not* open. Since most VHF-UHF contacts are
> > > tropo
> > > scatter, a mode that can propagate signals very long distances only when
> > > larger antennas are used (or operating locations are greatly
> > > advantageous,
> > > like being on a mountaintop), every small antenna improvement can yield
> > > large, noticeable improvements in working radius. Here's why "working
> > > radius" is important:
> > >
> > > Say you have a 6m vertical and a 100W station and can usually work other
> > > stations within a 50 mile radius. With 6m activity and population
> > > density
> > > as it is, that means you can regularly work 20 stations. Now, you
> > > improve
> > > to a horizontal rotary beam antenna and find you can usually work other
> > > stations within a 200 mile radius (not an unusual change). Now, you've
> > > just
> > > improved your "coverage area" from 7854 square miles (50 mile radius) to
> > > a
> > > whopping 125,664 square miles (200 mile radius). Assuming population
> > > density remains equal, and number of 6m operators per square mile
> > > remains
> > > equal, you've just increased how many stations you can regularly hear
> > > and
> > > work, from 20 to 320. Yes, twenty to three-hundred twenty. So, you've
> > > multiplied the number of stations you can routinely contact by a factor
> > > of
> > > 16 to 1, simply by adding a small beam.
> > >
> > > This is *not* an unusual improvement, by any means. Remember, 90% of
> > > all
> > > stations you can contact on six meters *will* be "weak," fairly close to
> > > the
> > > noise level. That's the nature of VHF SSB-CW work, and what makes it
> > > interesting and exciting in the first place. It doesn't matter what you
> > > run, how big your antenna is, or where you're located, this fact
> > > remains:
> > > 90% of your contacts will be "weak." As you improve your station, your
> > > antennas, your location, the QUANTITY of weak stations you can work will
> > > increase dramatically, but 90% will still be weak -- there will just be
> > > a
> > > lot more of them.
> > >
> > > And geometry's a powerful thing. When you increase your working radius,
> > > you
> > > increase the number of stations you can contact by the square of the
> > > radius.
> > > A two to one increase in radius yields a four to one increase in the
> > > population you can contact. A three to one increase in radius yields a
> > > *nine* to one increase in the population you can contact. It's simple
> > > math,
> > > but easy to forget when you're considering antenna changes.
> > >
> > > I have a 7L 6m horizontal beam on a tower, and also a "Ringo" 6m
> > > vertical
> > > (1/2-wavelength, works well for FM-repeaters -- far better than the
> > > horizontal beam, actually, since it has compatible polarity) on the roof
> > > of
> > > my home. If I tune around on six, on an average Sunday morning, turning
> > > the
> > > beam around listening for weak stations, I can usually hear 10-20
> > > stations
> > > on the band (no openings, no contests!). If I switch to the vertical,
> > > that
> > > quantity drops to maybe two or three stations. Big difference.
> > >
> > > 73 & good luck!
> > >
> > > Steve WB2WIK/6
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > It's a question of how big a signal you want to have, and that's at
> > > least
> > > in
> > >
> > > part relative to what sort of signals others have. The larger an
> > > antenna
> > > you go to (more accurately, the more effective, the more gain and other
> > > factors, but let's say gain as the most obvious one -- and height above
> > > ground, how high the antenna will be) the greater your ability to get
> > > through when conditions don't quite favor you, when the band isn't quite
> > > open, or isn't all the way open, etc., and if you have one of the
> > > smaller
> > > stations or signals, you may have to wait for many, many others to get
> > > through to a DX station before you get through. If you just want to
> > > talk
> > > to
> > >
> > > your buddy a few miles away, it doesn't take much. If you want to work
> > > DXCC, get through on the first call to rare stations, etc. you might
> > > want
> > > to
> > >
> > > upgrade a little at a time, etc., which is what most of us have done.
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > SixClub mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/sixclub
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:SixClub at mailman.qth.net
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > SixClub mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/sixclub
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm
> > Post: mailto:SixClub at mailman.qth.net
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > SixClub mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/sixclub
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm
> > Post: mailto:SixClub at mailman.qth.net
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> SixClub mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/sixclub
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/faq.htm
> Post: mailto:SixClub at mailman.qth.net
More information about the SixClub
mailing list