[R-390] R-390 Digest, Vol 119, Issue 25

Fri Mar 21 21:53:49 EDT 2014

Well, I can say that I HAVE indeed served my beloved county. I was in the USN during the Vietnam conflict. I built Hydrogen bombs. Really. We had plenty of monitors that were 'adequate' back in the day. Did I/do I worry about any of the consequences? Not for one minute.
I learned a lot of great lessons from my service. I went to schools at Sandia Corp. in New Mexico. Some of the mechanical abilities they taught me, serve me to this day as a retired EE with IBM.
Wouldn't trade my service for anything.
Only one thing that I wonder about....... today's shooters/reloaders are 'afraid' to experiment with WS2 and/or HBN, despite the overwhelming superiority of those chemicals in the shooting sports........Just don't snort it dude!

ron
N4UE

-----Original Message-----
From: r-390-request <r-390-request at mailman.qth.net>
To: r-390 <r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 3:30 pm
Subject: R-390 Digest, Vol 119, Issue 25

Send R-390 mailing list submissions to
	r-390 at mailman.qth.net

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: WS Powder use (Jbrannig at verizon.net)
   2. Hazards, they are all relative (Tisha Hayes)
   3. Re: WS Powder use (rbethman)
   4. Re: Hazards, they are all relative (rbethman)
   5. Re: Hazards, they are all relative (Bill Kulze)
   6. Re: R-390 Digest, Vol 119, Issue 24 (bonddaleena at aol.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 12:42:04 -0400
From: <Jbrannig at verizon.net>
To: "rbethman" <rbethman at comcast.net>,	<r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [R-390] WS Powder use
Message-ID: <8681C9406F8B414D8765618E43F714C8 at JimBPC660>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
	reply-type=response

Thank you for the explanation.
I'll stick with Mobil 1 for the gear train.....

Jim

-----Original Message----- 
From: rbethman 
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 10:05 AM 
To: r-390 at mailman.qth.net 
Subject: Re: [R-390] WS Powder use 

WS2 is a very advanced lubricant.  It is normally distributed in the dry 
form.  It is less expensive to ship dry, vs. wet.

The fluid used as a carrier is combined with the dry powder. Ethanol, 
Isopropyl alcohol, denatured alcohol, and other carriers simply make it 
manageable to use.

There are quite a number of things that are equally "nasty" that are 
used daily in the lives of people.

Carburetor and Choke cleaner in a spray container can be procured across 
the automotive parts and cleaners arena.

Reading its MSDS papers show it to be nastier.  It will simply enter the 
body through the skin.

Trichloroethane 1 1 1, a very common solvent in use during the '60s - 
'70s is way up on the list of *unhealthy* solvents.

Once again, its MSDS show it to be nastier.  It will simply enter the 
body through the skin.  It had wide use in cleaning High Voltage stress 
cone terminations to prepare the cross linked polymer insulation to 
prepare it for application of various tapes to create the profile of the 
stress cone.

Trichloroethane 1 1 1, was also distributed in 55 gal. containers, and 
down to 1 gal. cans for cleaning aircraft parts and components. It was 
also used in any engine works.

An example of its efficacy, the rubber coated wire looms on engines were 
sometimes placed in an open air bucket to clean them.  "Trico", 
completely dissolved the rubber.

Many hands were immersed in this solvent, as were many other solvents.  
Stoddard solvent isn't exactly a safe one to use either.

It is really a case of understanding what the hazards are, and take care 
when handling.

WS2, Tungsten Di-Sulfide, has one of the lowest coefficients of friction 
available.

Lubricating the gears assembly of the R-390A with it is very beneficial.

It also is a very good lubricant for firearms, engines, and far more.  
The nano particle nature of it makes it bond to the surface and reduce 
friction between parts.

Regards,
Bob - N0DGN

On 3/21/2014 8:23 AM, Jbrannig at verizon.net wrote:
> This sounds like nasty stuff, what is it used for?
>
> jim
>

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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 11:57:27 -0500
From: Tisha Hayes <tisha.hayes at gmail.com>
To: R390A <r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [R-390] Hazards, they are all relative
Message-ID:
	<CAACTF11Ah3wGBGku9kwhn2TBueAHg3VKfqkuv+m38C+zgSNufw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sometimes we inadvertently fall into the nanny-trap and begin to worry
about every possible thing that can happen to us. Nano lubricants, PCB's in
capacitors, radioactive paint on panel meters. I never had the honor of
serving my country in the armed services. A significant number of people on
this list have, and in that time many of you became acquainted with our
radios. There were probably many other things that were relatively more
risky or dangerous that you dealt with every day while you were in the
service (other than the mess hall chow).

By virtue of surviving decades of hazards, many of them self inflicted, so
far we are all winners. Our decrepit bodies have not reached room
temperature yet, the dirt nap has not happened this morning.

I am not going to snort WS like Tony Montana from the movie "Scarface" Or
stick my arms in up to my elbows in PCB oil or trichlor (been there, done
that, most of us have). We have all ended up on our butts from grabbing B+.
Those little incidents are great ways to have it pounded into your head
"oh! I am NOT going to do that again!"

If you use WS lubricant I would not get too worried about it. You probably
pull in more fine particulates into your lungs from when you went on family
vacation with your parents, who were smokers, and had the windows rolled up
tight on that cross country trip. Or if you ever visited Beijing or Paris
for a weekend. We are not talking about occupational exposures for what we
are doing, just use common sense and a little bit of caution.

-- 
Ms. Tisha Hayes. AA4HA

 *"There are many who live in the mountains and behave as if they were in
the town; they are wasting their time. It is possible to be a solitary in
one's mind while living in a crowd; and it is possible for those who are
solitaries to live in the crowd of their own thoughts."*
*-Amma Sarah of the Desert*

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:09:06 -0400
From: rbethman <rbethman at comcast.net>
To: r-390 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [R-390] WS Powder use
Message-ID: <532C7232.4050001 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jim,

I *always* recommend that individuals stick with whatever they feel most 
comfortable with.

I, for one, did obtain the WS2 powder.

I keep it in the plastic bag(s) received in.  I only use it very 
sparingly.  Isopropyl alcohol in 91% concentration is available in 
pharmacies on the shelf.

I also obtained 98%+ Ethanol.  I have soaked a cloth with it, dipped it 
into the powder, and applied it.

Indeed some did get on my skin.  It readily washed off.

At no time did I inhale the powder.  The results on the application were 
extremely satisfactory.  The nano particle bonded with the metal object 
being lubricated.

The function of the moving parts is far better than any other lubricant 
I have ever used.

I *NEVER* take use of potentially hazardous materials lightly.

I indeed did use a Nitrile glove on the right hand.  I simply erred by 
NOT using one on the left hand.  This is where powder and skin came into 
contact.

I never have taken exposure to hazardous chemicals lightly.

I've been exposed to some without my actually being involved in its 
distribution.  Therefore, I have tissue submitted to the Agent Orange 
Database.

It was simply a matter in being where I was directed to be, and happened 
to end up under the path of a C-123 Provider, a flight of several, 
spraying massive quantities over a broad area.

Life simply is what it is.

Regards,
Bob - N0DGN

On 3/21/2014 12:42 PM, Jbrannig at verizon.net wrote:
> Thank you for the explanation.
> I'll stick with Mobil 1 for the gear train.....
>
> Jim

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 13:17:38 -0400
From: rbethman <rbethman at comcast.net>
To: r-390 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [R-390] Hazards, they are all relative
Message-ID: <532C7432.601 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Tisha,

As you so well put things, you have indeed done so again!

Uniformed service did expose one to far more dangerous things. Some were 
flying through the air with a perceived reckless abandon.  These were 
not healthy.

Neither was the Agent Orange.  History has demonstrated the reckless use 
of DDT fogging systems in Florida.  The vehicles were marked: "Mosquito 
Control".  It was a part of life that was the *Norm* at the time.

Fortunately I do not appear to have underwent significant harm.

PCB laced transformer oil was used in locations where fire was a very 
possible issue.

I have been up to my armpits in some, simply to change the voltage taps.

Part of the "Duty" element.

Regards,
Bob - N0DGN

On 3/21/2014 12:57 PM, Tisha Hayes wrote:
> Sometimes we inadvertently fall into the nanny-trap and begin to worry
> about every possible thing that can happen to us. Nano lubricants, PCB's in
> capacitors, radioactive paint on panel meters. I never had the honor of
> serving my country in the armed services. A significant number of people on
> this list have, and in that time many of you became acquainted with our
> radios. There were probably many other things that were relatively more
> risky or dangerous that you dealt with every day while you were in the
> service (other than the mess hall chow).
>
> By virtue of surviving decades of hazards, many of them self inflicted, so
> far we are all winners. Our decrepit bodies have not reached room
> temperature yet, the dirt nap has not happened this morning.
>
> I am not going to snort WS like Tony Montana from the movie "Scarface" Or
> stick my arms in up to my elbows in PCB oil or trichlor (been there, done
> that, most of us have). We have all ended up on our butts from grabbing B+.
> Those little incidents are great ways to have it pounded into your head
> "oh! I am NOT going to do that again!"
>
> If you use WS lubricant I would not get too worried about it. You probably
> pull in more fine particulates into your lungs from when you went on family
> vacation with your parents, who were smokers, and had the windows rolled up
> tight on that cross country trip. Or if you ever visited Beijing or Paris
> for a weekend. We are not talking about occupational exposures for what we
> are doing, just use common sense and a little bit of caution.
>

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 18:04:14 +0000
From: Bill Kulze <wak9 at cornell.edu>
To: "R-390 at mailman.qth.net" <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [R-390] Hazards, they are all relative
Message-ID:
	<148e6263d3384f1a9a3275dbd0cbf510 at BLUPR04MB738.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

-----Original Message-----
From: r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:r-390-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On 
Behalf Of rbethman

  The vehicles were marked: "Mosquito Control".  It was a part of life that was 
the *Norm* at the time.

Regards,
Bob - N0DGN

When I was at Keesler in 77 they used to do the fogging, most every night.

I guess in the old days when you were incarcerated, the 'delousing' involved 
getting all powdered up with ddt.

Good gracious

Bill
W2NVD

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 15:30:14 -0400 (EDT)
From: bonddaleena at aol.com
To: r-390 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [R-390] R-390 Digest, Vol 119, Issue 24
Message-ID: <8D113531DC38E0A-FC0-C6A1 at webmail-d170.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I use both WS2 and HBN powders of all my firearms and bullets. I store the WS2 
(and HBN) in plastic PETE jars. Although I purchased the jars some time ago, 
Peter Pan peanut butter comes in a PETE jar.
If one was so inclined, there are 2 great sites that discuss these materials:

6mmbr.com (info on plating bullets using Moly, WS2, and HBN.)

Bobistheoilguy.com (some excellent discussions by real Engineers, and 
Tribologists  that formulate additive packages for oil companies)

BIOG, has some great info on a product called "Lubromoly" that was designed to 
be used in auto engines. The particle size is SO small, they go right through 
the filter, and stay suspended in the oil.

The best grease I have made so far, is a mixture of engine assembly lube (high 
in Zinc) and WS2.

ron
N4UE

-----Original Message-----
From: r-390-request <r-390-request at mailman.qth.net>
To: r-390 <r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:55 pm
Subject: R-390 Digest, Vol 119, Issue 24

Send R-390 mailing list submissions to
	r-390 at mailman.qth.net

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/r-390
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	r-390-request at mailman.qth.net

You can reach the person managing the list at
	r-390-owner at mailman.qth.net

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of R-390 digest..."

Today's Topics:

   1.  Tungsten Disulfide Question (Tisha Hayes)
   2. R-390A: Soul of the Machine (Mark Richards)
   3. Re: R-390A: Soul of the Machine (Barry)
   4. WS Powder use (Perry Sandeen)
   5. Re: WS Powder use (Jbrannig at verizon.net)
   6. Re: WS Powder use (rbethman)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:49:24 -0500
From: Tisha Hayes <tisha.hayes at gmail.com>
To: R390A <r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [R-390]  Tungsten Disulfide Question
Message-ID:
	<CAACTF11DHC1BAOsv04YUOAdu-r1zkMeJ-q8HPzy_iVkuF31UDw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I just keep it in dry form. I have a mason jar full of the stuff and it has
never been a problem. When I use it I cut it with alcohol in very small
quantities for that application and just put the mason jar back on the
shelf.

If you buy bulk from the original supplier you can get a tub of grease or
the half-quart bottle of the engine additive concentrate (that I have been
using in my car). One time I "lost" the engine additive bottle (lost in
plain sight, in the trunk of my car) so I just took a scoop full of the
powder (one of those scoops you find in a PowerAide drink concentrate) and
dumped it into a half empty bottle of Mobil 1 motor oil and added that to
my car engine.

I have not been too concerned about the mixing ratios, concentrates, etc..
with the stuff. For the car the only real purpose it serves is for that
first second or so when cranking over a cold engine when the oil had
drained into the sump after a few days. The tungsten stuff is klingy enough
(in my belief) to keep the cams and maybe the bottom end of the piston
sleeves at least a little lubricated.

The only negative effect I have seen is at oil change time. If I do it at
3000 miles the people at the local shop go "whoo-hee, that is some black
motor oil!". I do not explain or elaborate, they would look at me as if I
had grown a third eye out of the middle of my forehead if I explained.

For those who have participated in Perry's offering to the list, what have
been your experiences? Do you think it was worth the effort to spend the
few bucks to use it?

-- 
Ms. Tisha Hayes. AA4HA

 *"There are many who live in the mountains and behave as if they were in
the town; they are wasting their time. It is possible to be a solitary in
one's mind while living in a crowd; and it is possible for those who are
solitaries to live in the crowd of their own thoughts."*
*-Amma Sarah of the Desert*

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:59:15 -0400
From: Mark Richards <mark.richards at massmicro.com>
To: R-390-List <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [R-390] R-390A: Soul of the Machine
Message-ID: <532B9CF3.4030706 at massmicro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

I am sitting here soaking in the wonderful sounds of a Real Radio 
Receiver.  Having fixed most of the issues in my sad-case of an R-390A 
(Stewart-Warner S/N 2786) the tubes glow and the signals now flow.  I am 
like an eager child, opening the holiday gift before the sun rises.  I 
have the wonderful and esteemed members of this list; all those whose 
inspired work made such miracles as this so possible, to thank.

Working on the R-390A I have reflected upon this concept: Soul of the 
Machine.  Today's modern, ultra-compact, digitized, flat-screen 
flat-world  E-devices, laden with useless facade and equally-useless 
features, lack the heft, presence, and character of an earlier time, 
where electronic wonders actually took a few minutes to come to life.  
Those 30 dramatic seconds from dark to signal are a deeply satisfying 
pause... this receiver's way of saying, "I have something worth waiting 
for".  And, she's right.  Her individual character, warm tone, and 
satisfying rich sound are all made possible through the magic of that 
which our modernity lacks: a beating heart.  This machine has soul.  In 
her presence, the false and vacuous melt into the goo from which they 
were molded.  Tonight there is the R-390A, and nothing else.

There's more work to be done on this old and venerable Real Radio 
Receiver, but tonight I am taking in her wonders as band after band 
speaks in ways the transistorized, processed, and homogenized modern 
gear simply can never achieve.

I am, to put it plainly, in love.

/K1MGY

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 22:37:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry <n4buq at knology.net>
To: Mark Richards <mark.richards at massmicro.com>
Cc: R-390-List <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [R-390] R-390A: Soul of the Machine
Message-ID:
	<262638844.68280600.1395369468467.JavaMail.root at md01.knology.synacor.com>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Reminds me of the book "The Soul of a New Machine".  Good read.

Barry - N4BUQ

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Richards" <mark.richards at massmicro.com>
> To: "R-390-List" <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 8:59:15 PM
> Subject: [R-390] R-390A: Soul of the Machine
> 
> I am sitting here soaking in the wonderful sounds of a Real Radio
> Receiver.  Having fixed most of the issues in my sad-case of an
> R-390A
> (Stewart-Warner S/N 2786) the tubes glow and the signals now flow.  I
> am
> like an eager child, opening the holiday gift before the sun rises.
>  I
> have the wonderful and esteemed members of this list; all those whose
> inspired work made such miracles as this so possible, to thank.
> 
> Working on the R-390A I have reflected upon this concept: Soul of the
> Machine.  Today's modern, ultra-compact, digitized, flat-screen
> flat-world  E-devices, laden with useless facade and equally-useless
> features, lack the heft, presence, and character of an earlier time,
> where electronic wonders actually took a few minutes to come to life.
> Those 30 dramatic seconds from dark to signal are a deeply satisfying
> pause... this receiver's way of saying, "I have something worth
> waiting
> for".  And, she's right.  Her individual character, warm tone, and
> satisfying rich sound are all made possible through the magic of that
> which our modernity lacks: a beating heart.  This machine has soul.
>  In
> her presence, the false and vacuous melt into the goo from which they
> were molded.  Tonight there is the R-390A, and nothing else.
> 
> There's more work to be done on this old and venerable Real Radio
> Receiver, but tonight I am taking in her wonders as band after band
> speaks in ways the transistorized, processed, and homogenized modern
> gear simply can never achieve.
> 
> I am, to put it plainly, in love.
> 
> /K1MGY
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> R-390 mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/r-390
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 21:42:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perry Sandeen <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>
To: "r-390 at mailman.qth.net" <r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: [R-390] WS Powder use
Message-ID:
	<1395376926.46663.YahooMailNeo at web161501.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

List,
?
Wrote: I am now reluctant to keep W2S in dry form.
?
After your experience with the Pepsi bottles that
is a reasonable thought.
?
However, I still have several pounds of WS powder
stored in ordinary zip lock bags which have shown no degradation since I
purchased it many months ago. 
?
It is inherently safe with ordinary precautions.? I filled many small zip lock 
bags with it and
I did get some on my fingers but it washed off easily with soap and water. Most
of the time I used cheap latex gloves as I was measuring out many bags.
?
The reason one doesn?t want to breathe it is the
same reason ones doesn?t want to inhale coal dust or fine cotton particles.
?
If any of the above gets into your lungs it stays
there.? Enough over a long period of time
will lead to a form of ?Black Lung? problems.
?
Because of the fineness of the particles, when I
was lifting it out to the smaller bags, was that I would get almost vertical 
side
walls when lifting it out with a tiny spatula.
?
Yes, if you?re going to have a big sneeze or a
fast airflow that is not good around WS powder.? But it is perfectly useable 
without a respirator.
?
One uses alcohol as a delivery system that
evaporates leaving the WS on the part one wants lubricated.
?
Reasonable care of use yes, fear no.
?
Regards,
?
Perrier??

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 08:23:05 -0400
From: <Jbrannig at verizon.net>
To: "Perry Sandeen" <sandeenpa at yahoo.com>,	<r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [R-390] WS Powder use
Message-ID: <10C4BFEE3FB746A287013B34665D35C1 at JimBPC660>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=UTF-8;
	reply-type=original

This sounds like nasty stuff, what is it used for?

jim

-----Original Message----- 
From: Perry Sandeen
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 12:42 AM
To: r-390 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [R-390] WS Powder use

List,

Wrote: I am now reluctant to keep W2S in dry form.

After your experience with the Pepsi bottles that
is a reasonable thought.

However, I still have several pounds of WS powder
stored in ordinary zip lock bags which have shown no degradation since I
purchased it many months ago.

It is inherently safe with ordinary precautions.  I filled many small zip 
lock bags with it and
I did get some on my fingers but it washed off easily with soap and water. 
Most
of the time I used cheap latex gloves as I was measuring out many bags.

The reason one doesn?t want to breathe it is the
same reason ones doesn?t want to inhale coal dust or fine cotton particles.

If any of the above gets into your lungs it stays
there.  Enough over a long period of time
will lead to a form of ?Black Lung? problems.

Because of the fineness of the particles, when I
was lifting it out to the smaller bags, was that I would get almost vertical 
side
walls when lifting it out with a tiny spatula.

Yes, if you?re going to have a big sneeze or a
fast airflow that is not good around WS powder.  But it is perfectly useable 
without a respirator.

One uses alcohol as a delivery system that
evaporates leaving the WS on the part one wants lubricated.

Reasonable care of use yes, fear no.

Regards,

Perrier
______________________________________________________________
R-390 mailing list
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html 

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2014 10:05:10 -0400
From: rbethman <rbethman at comcast.net>
To: r-390 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [R-390] WS Powder use
Message-ID: <532C4716.7050000 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed