[R-390] R-389 PTO
Jerry Boman
mdg11fbf at gmail.com
Wed May 6 12:32:08 EDT 2009
Hey all,
This may be slightly off topic but yet not so here goes... I'm a
newly licensed Gen and have not yet transmitted with my T-195 partly due to
this thread as it has a auto tune mechanism also and the first time I turned
it on it took off spinning the dials like it was in a horse race... I was
shocked and immediatly flipped it off to avoid a catastrophy. Of course
unlocking the dials solved the immediate worry but in following this thread
about the R-389 brings me to ask if anyone knows if the T-195 is or might be
notorious for doing the same thing. Anybody know?. 73 Jerry KD0HNX
On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 9:03 AM, <r-390-request at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Collins R 389 PTO (Gary Pewitt)
> 2. Re: Collins R 389 PTO (2002tii)
> 3. Re: Collins R 389 PTO (Cecil Acuff)
> 4. PTO makers (wb3fau at att.net)
> 5. Re: Collins R 389 PTO (2002tii)
> 6. Re: subchassis mounting nuts Q (Roy Morgan)
> 7. Re: Collins R 389 PTO (Roy Morgan)
> 8. Re: subchassis mounting nuts Q (Barry)
> 9. Re: Collins R 389 PTO (2002tii)
> 10. R-725 on ebay (Tom M.)
> 11. Re: PTO makers (Tim Shoppa)
> 12. Re: Collins R 389 PTO (Gord Hayward)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 19:49:12 -0500
> From: Gary Pewitt <n9zsv at magtel.com>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> To: "Cecil Acuff" <chacuff at cableone.net>,
> <Flowertime01 at wmconnect.com>, <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID:
> <200905060049.n460nDMd005122 at mail962c35.nsolutionszone.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Pardon the possibly off topic question but wouldn't it be at least as
> important to develop a way to -prevent- the PTO from self distructing
> in the first place. A better stop, some kind of microswitch
> controlling a relay to cut the motor, a slip clutch, etc. ? Then you
> could at least make the still good ones last longer.
> My 2 cents worth. 73 Gary N9ZSV
>
>
> At 07:17 PM 5/5/2009, Cecil Acuff wrote:
> >Well if I can find a 389 in reasonable shape with a munched PTO and maybe
> a
> >2nd munched PTO that all was also reasonably priced I would be happy to
> make
> >an attempt to develop a method to rehabilitate the original PTO's.
> >
> >But it appears only functioning 389's are offered for sale...or ones with
> no
> >PTO included at all which is no help!
> >
> >Cecil Acuff
> >K5DL
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <Flowertime01 at wmconnect.com>
> >To: <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
> >Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 4:40 PM
> >Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> >
> >
> > > Bill,
> > >
> > > R389 did run into a to least a couple 1000 built.
> > > We think there may be 25 units at current time that need a VFO.
> > >
> > > Down the other path, what are the chances of mixing core stuff and
> epoxy
> > > to
> > > make a new core?
> > >
> > > We could do a cold glue core and machine it to size and thread that
> would
> > > fit the shaft.
> > >
> > > Then we would have to do a new coil form and wind a coil.
> > >
> > > We could select the new core outside diameter to fit a stock core form.
> > >
> > > I cannot imagine how many test coils would need to be wound to get the
> > > inductance and linearity close enough to be usable.
> > >
> > > Roger AI4NI
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > R-390 mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/r-390
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________________
> >R-390 mailing list
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> Gary Pewitt N9ZSV garypewitt at centurytel.net 479 675 4376
> 1500 French Prairie Rd. Booneville, Arkansas 72927
> Sturgeon's Law "Ninety percent of everything is crap."
> Pewitt's Law: But it's that other 10% that makes life worth living."
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 21:00:12 -0400
> From: 2002tii <bmw2002tii at nerdshack.com>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> To: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Cc: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <20090506010018.7206211B7BD at karen.lavabit.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Bob wrote:
>
> >any suggestions on usage or PM for [R-389 PTOs] that are still in
> >good condition?
>
> Yes. Clean the drive, with particular attention to the clutch, and
> make sure the clutch is 100% FB. Then disconnect the wires from the motor.
>
> Many people think they have the self-discipline to keep their hands
> off the motor tuning knob, so they omit the second step. Then they
> think, "What the hell, once won't matter, I'll be careful," and not
> long after that they have a mangled PTO.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Don
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 20:18:17 -0500
> From: "Cecil Acuff" <chacuff at cableone.net>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> To: <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>, "2002tii" <bmw2002tii at nerdshack.com>
> Message-ID: <650572F3F0B84112A16619419B425CAC at acuffmain>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Well I have to ask...what was the military standard operating procedure to
> keep the operators from damaging the things....I can't believe Collins
> would
> design a radio that would self destruct in the hands of an operator?
>
> I realize I am showing my lack of knowledge of this particular radio but
> that is less important than understanding how one was to operate the thing
> as Collins designed and have it survive.
>
> Cecil
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "2002tii" <bmw2002tii at nerdshack.com>
> To: <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
> Cc: <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 8:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
>
>
> > Bob wrote:
> >
> >>any suggestions on usage or PM for [R-389 PTOs] that are still in
> >>good condition?
> >
> > Yes. Clean the drive, with particular attention to the clutch, and
> > make sure the clutch is 100% FB. Then disconnect the wires from the
> > motor.
> >
> > Many people think they have the self-discipline to keep their hands
> > off the motor tuning knob, so they omit the second step. Then they
> > think, "What the hell, once won't matter, I'll be careful," and not
> > long after that they have a mangled PTO.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > R-390 mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/r-390
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 01:19:46 +0000
> From: wb3fau at att.net
> Subject: [R-390] PTO makers
> To: r-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID:
> <
> 050620090119.8907.4A00E5B2000A473B000022CB22230704929B0A02D29B9B0EBF9A0E00CC0D99 at att.net
> >
>
>
> recent issue of this publication shows contractors/builders. I see some
> with Cosmos PTOs, did they just make PTOS? Did they have a contract
> for complete receivers? I know Collins
> built PTOS, did anyone else? Russ wb3fau
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 21:41:24 -0400
> From: 2002tii <bmw2002tii at nerdshack.com>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> To: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <20090506014125.E819711B7D0 at karen.lavabit.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Roger wrote:
>
> >Down the other path, what are the chances of mixing core stuff and epoxy
> to
> >make a new core?
>
> Not a chance. For little repairs, yes, but not a whole core (or even
> a decent chunk of one). The thing to do is find a lump of the right
> ferrite that is bigger than the core, then machine it to
> size/shape. If someone shipped a good 70H-1 core to Magnetics, they
> could probably help to reverse-engineer it.
>
> >Then we would have to do a new coil form and wind a coil.
>
> The coils and forms should be salvageable, even if they're
> broken. If not, one could relatively easily duplicate the coil and
> form if they had a good one to copy.
>
> >I cannot imagine how many test coils would need to be wound to get the
> >inductance and linearity close enough to be usable.
>
> I wouldn't dream of trying to re-engineer a PTO that would meet
> original specs. But I would copy whatever is necessary to repair one
> to the original design.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Don
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:31:20 -0400
> From: Roy Morgan <k1lky at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] subchassis mounting nuts Q
> To: Larry Snyder <larrys at teamlarry.com>
> Cc: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <5509B13C-1045-47DA-9517-7D4E9B2F1DF8 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> On May 5, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Larry Snyder wrote:
>
> > ...My 390A ('58 Motorola + possible mongrel-ism) has
> > a couple of apparently stripped nuts in the deck where the back end
> > of the AF chassis attaches. Is there a decent fix for this,
>
> Larry,
>
> I assume that they are PEM nuts - specially formed nuts that are
> pressed into the chassis plate. Google PEM Nuts for details and
> drawings.
>
> The problem is that to get a stripped nut out, you have to deform the
> aluminum that is holding it in, and any replacement nut will not
> clinch properly. The hole diameter for them to work right is
> critical. You may be able to add a piece of aluminum below the hole
> to hole a new PEM nut, but likely there is something below there to
> prevent that.
>
> Roy
>
>
> Roy Morgan
> k1lky at earthlink.net
> 529 Cobb St.
> Groton NY, 13073
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 22:33:34 -0400
> From: Roy Morgan <k1lky at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> To: 2002tii <bmw2002tii at nerdshack.com>
> Cc: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <70988E2C-8F54-40F4-B2B8-521B9F1CF85E at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>
> On May 5, 2009, at 9:00 PM, 2002tii wrote:
>
> > Bob wrote:
> >
> >> any suggestions on usage or PM for [R-389 PTOs] that are still in
> >> good condition?
> >
> > Yes. Clean the drive, with particular attention to the clutch, and
> > make sure the clutch is 100% FB. Then disconnect the wires from the
> > motor.
>
> AND, make sure the clutch in the manual tuning knob is ok and working
> right.
>
> Is there some other clutch in the system? Or is this the one Don
> refers to?
>
>
> Roy
>
> Roy Morgan
> k1lky at earthlink.net
> 529 Cobb St.
> Groton NY, 13073
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 5 May 2009 21:41:15 -0500
> From: "Barry" <n4buq at knology.net>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] subchassis mounting nuts Q
> To: <R-390 at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <000e01c9cdf4$20c167b0$6401a8c0 at ingrnet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> > Hi all --
> > This may be an old question, but the archives aren't terribly
> > searchable. My 390A ('58 Motorola + possible mongrel-ism) has
> > a couple of apparently stripped nuts in the deck where the back end
> > of the AF chassis attaches. Is there a decent fix for this, or am I
> > bound for kludgeville?
> >
> > Thanx!
> > -ls-
>
> You might be able to drill them out, tap the hole to the appropriate size,
> and use a theaded insert.
>
> Barry - N4BUQ
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 22:51:03 -0400
> From: 2002tii <bmw2002tii at nerdshack.com>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> To: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <20090506025104.DF37911B7BD at karen.lavabit.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Cecil wrote:
>
> >Well I have to ask...what was the military standard operating
> >procedure to keep the operators from damaging the things....I can't
> >believe Collins would design a radio that would self destruct in the
> >hands of an operator?
> >
> >I realize I am showing my lack of knowledge of this particular radio
> >but that is less important than understanding how one was to operate
> >the thing as Collins designed and have it survive.
>
> PTO failures are generally caused by a confluence of factors -- a
> sticky clutch, plus running the PTO to its end stop (generally with
> the motor, but it can happen by hand tuning, too). Back in the day,
> the clutches were a lot closer to fresh than they are now, they got
> scheduled maintenance, and everything (switches, limit stops, etc.)
> was usually in adjustment. Not so anymore, so there is less margin
> for error than there was back then. Also, the materials in the coil
> form, the ferrite itself (internal stress cracks), etc. are much more
> fragile now than they were then. So the next thing that goes wrong
> could actually be the second or third factor in the confluence, but
> you won't know it until too late.
>
> Don't forget, Uncle Sam had a big pile of replacement PTOs and a
> never-ending supply of radiomen, so it didn't matter so much if one
> failed. Now, it does.
>
> If you rebuild everything, set all the clearances, stops, etc.
> perfectly, then perform full depot maintenance twice a year, you may
> get away with using the motor tuning. In my book, prudence counsels
> using R-389s as manual-tuned radios in the 21st century -- after the
> clutches are carefully rebuilt and adjusted, and hopefully everything else.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 04:27:16 -0700 (PDT)
> From: "Tom M." <courir26 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: [R-390] R-725 on ebay
> To: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <288575.76339.qm at web36208.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> There is a sure enough real R-725 on ebay.
>
> 330328126088
>
> Tom N5OFF
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 08:50:31 -0400
> From: "Tim Shoppa" <tshoppa at wmata.com>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] PTO makers
> To: <wb3fau at att.net>,<r-390 at mailman.qth.net>
> Message-ID: <4A014F570200003700054E89 at gwiavs.nservices.wmata.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> WB3FAU asks:
> > I see some with Cosmos PTOs, did they just make PTOS?
> > Did they have a contract for complete receivers?
>
> Cosmos Industries made a ham transceiver called the
> "Cosmophone 35" in the 50's and early 60's. Most striking
> feature is two long slide rule dials allowing independent
> settings for two VFO's. I don't think they sold a whole lot of
> them - in the past few decades I've only ever seen two at
> hamfests.
>
> Tim.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 10:03:49 -0400
> From: Gord Hayward <ghayward at uoguelph.ca>
> Subject: Re: [R-390] Collins R 389 PTO
> To: R-390 at mailman.qth.net
> Message-ID: <4A0198C5.6080202 at uoguelph.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> >
> >
> >No, but linearity and absolute rate are both still important because
> >the VFO needs to be synchronized to the tracking filters (unless you
> >are willing to tune the RF and VFO independently -- ugh).
> >
> AHA, thats the error in my thoughts. At any rate, as a self declared
> Luddite, I plan to go with
> mine (R 390A) as is and not mess with it. If (touching wood) something
> fails, I'll fix it. The
> advice here is awesome.
> Cheers, Gord (VE3EOS)
>
> --
>
> Gordon L. Hayward, Ph.D., P.Eng.,
> Associate Professor, Biological Engineering,
> School of Engineering, University of Guelph,
> Guelph, Ontario, N1G 2W1.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> End of R-390 Digest, Vol 61, Issue 9
> ************************************
>
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