[QCWA] D-Star experience

Sat Aug 11 13:52:46 EDT 2012

Thank you both Jeff & Bill.

Bill has provided an accurate - at least from what I've read - account about 
the development & manufacture of D-Star.  I also heard that the D-Star 
Kenwood radio was a relabeled Icom.

Apparently, while the system is not proprietary, the name "D-Star" has been 
copyrighted by Icom.  Nonetheless, as Bill says, the system as developed by 
JARL is open to any manufacturer that wants to make radios to that standard, 
using the proprietary chip from DVSI, as explained below.

My interest in D-Star has nothing to do with the claimed improved voice 
quality associated with digital audio.  My interest centers around the 
accompanying data stream and its possible usage in emcomm as a carrier for 
email, etc.  I believe that this is why the D-Rats program was developed and 
implemented.  Apparently, Washington County, Oregon, emcomm workers are 
using it; perhaps they were the ones that helped develop this aspect of 
D-Star implementation.  In D-Rats, you can apparently send official ICS-213 
messages via an email "linkup" to the internet.  It is this facility, the 
D-Star data stream, that I am most interested in learning about.

Can this data stream be used to carry Winlink 2K, or is it only good for 
D-Rats data/email, or ???

While the price of the radios is certainly above the FM variety, Icom has 
had an interesting policy of providing a free first repeater system to an 
area that has no present coverage, or at least that's what I've been told. 
There has to be a minimum number of users (10, I think) for this to become a 
reality.  The free repeater helps with the overall expenditure of initially 
implementing a D-Star system in such a case.  Once set up, Icom benefits 
from other users coming on board.

Cheers,

Dave Hayes VE3JX

--------------------------------------------------
From: "William Pasternak" <newsline at ix.netcom.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 11:35 AM
To: "Jeffrey D Angus" <jdangus at att.net>; <qcwa at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [QCWA] D-Star experience

> Jeff and all,
>
> A slight correction.  D-Star is not a proprietary system from or by
> Icom.  The source code was developed by the Japan Amateur Radio
> League and is in the public domain.  What is proprietary is the DVSI
> (Digital Voice Systems Inc.) AMBE 2000 encoder/decoder chip because
> AMBE developed the I/C firmware and as such owns the "chip" not the
> actual source code itself.
>
> Any manufacturer anywhere in the world is free to develop and market
> its own D-Star radio.  Yes, they are tied to the  DVSI AMBE2000 full
> duplex vocoder DSP chip because DVSI has chosen not to license its
> manufacture to anyone else.  But in single lot quantities these chips
> are only in the $12 per unit range.  And I am sure in mass wholesale
> quantity, they cost a lot less.
>
> Why you do not see D-Star radios from Kenwood, Yaesu or Alinco has
> nothing to do with it being a proprietary system (which it is not) or
> even that it requires a proprietary chip.  It has all do do with the
> way Pacific Rim equipment developers bring product to the
> marketplace.  Its the business mindset that while peculiar to Western
> culture is common in the Pacific Rin and basically says that if Icom
> has developed a product based on a certain design standard, that no
> other company will do the same.  Its strictly cultural and has
> nothing to do with either technology itself or good business acumen.
>
> A few years ago, it was widely rumored that Kenwood would be bringing
> a D-Star radio to the market.  It actuary did so, but only in the
> Japan domestic market and only for a matter of months.  The radio was
> pictured on many websites and was -- in reality either a direct
> licensed clone of ot a re-badged Icom ID-800.  But for the world
> market, Kenwood chose to develop the TM-V71A which interfaces to the
> www using internal Echolink software.
>
> The base cost of manufacture of a TM-V71A analog FM and that of an
> ID-880 Icom D-Star radio are likely quite close, so why did Kenwood
> opt for Echolink?  Because Icom was supporting D-Star.  Its the same
> reason that Alinco (now GRE Alinco) supports using the publicly-open
> ITU-TV.32 digital voice protocol while Yaesu recently announced its
> support C4FM FDMA in its new FT1DR/E hand held transceiverwhich is a
> commercially used digital voice protocol.   The Icom, Yaesu and
> Alinco radios all require encoder / decoder chips that are
> proprietary even though the protocols themselves are open source code.
>
> So why the refusal to enter the D-Star market?  The only
> reason:  Pride.  No company will make a product similar to any
> other.  Remember -- the first NBFM transceivers were developed in the
> USA and Europe -- not Japan.  In this area the Pacific Rim were
> joriginally OEM suppliers to companies like Galexy, Ross & White and
> others including Sears & Roebuck for several years before the first
> Icom, Kenwood and Yaesu radios were sold un-rebadged to the Western
> nations.  They are only leaders in digital audio because in the West
> no company has yet seen a real market develop for digital amateur
> radio gear at a level to invest in.  I doubt that it ever will happen
> as the two US based major manufacturers of ham gear -- TenTec and
> Elecraft -- appear to be heavily HF oriented.
>
> In reality, there is nothing keeping any entrepreneur in the USA or
> Europe from building and selling a D-Star radio in competition to
> Icom.  The only thing that they -- at present -- must use is the
> proprietary DVSI AMBE encoder / decoder chip.  Its the exact same
> chip that is used in the D-Star DV Dongle -- made here in the USA -- 
> that connects to your PC or Apple Mac via a USB port uses to provide
> encoding and decoding of compressed audio using the JARL Codec.  At
> present, DVSI AMBE chips are the only encoder / decoder i/c's used in
> all D-Star radio gear -- including the U.S. produced DV Dongle.  I
> believe that they are also the sole supplier of the  ITU-TV.32
> digital voice protocol chip as well.
>
> Will this ever change?  Only if and when the Chinese decide which
> system that they will clone and bring to the world marketplace at a
> price point far lower than that of current ham radio digital audio
> gear.  Likely, that reverse engineering is happening right now, but
> they will await investment from a US or European equipment supplier
> before producing anything.  There is always the chance that we may
> see a mainland China clone come to the market via eBay such as the
> first Wouxun, TYR and Baofeng FM hand-helds, but I suspect thats a
> longshot as the market for digital audio ham radio is in reality
> insignificant right now.
>
> In reality, my prediction is that -- barring action by our FCC to bar
> use of analog in ham radio -- which is pretty far fetched -- that for
> VHF/UHF emcomm work, that NBFM will remain as the primary mode used,
> while on HF it will continue to be SSB voice.  And we are talking
> voice communications not digital keyboard based modes.
>
> So in a nutshell, there is nothing proprietary regarding the D-Star
> source code and anyone who can figure out a way around being forced
> to use the proprietary firmware inside the AMBE2000 chip can build
> and market a radio around its encode / decode system.  Some hams are
> working on this with a firmware called Codec 2, but thats nowhere
> ready for "prime time" yet.
>
> Last but by no means least, the reason that our nation does not have
> and may never have a truly inter operable digital voice radio
> communications system is that each manufacturer is hell bent on
> making its "digital protocol" the "only" protocol.  In most nations
> the telecommunications regulatory body dictates standards that
> industry must adopt.  Here in the USA is the other way around.  As a
> result, we have a digital television system based on an inferior 8VSB
> system to the world standard OFDM.
>
> The bottom line:  Until both Congress and the FCC get their act
> together and dictate development of a single digital voice protocol,
> a nationwide inter operable radio communications system will never
> become a reality.   At least not in many of our lifetimes.
>
> de
> Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF
>
>
>
>
> At 05:15 AM 8/11/2012, Jeffrey D Angus wrote:
>>Just a personal thought, D-Star is still a proprietary system
>>from Icom.
>>
>>The biggest issue with Em-Comms is interoperability.
>>
>>While I find that Icom's emulation of the Nextel "Direct talk"
>>network to be an interesting design, using something that
>>excludes 90% of the available radios out there isn't my
>>idea of interoperability.
>>
>>Jeff-1.0
>>wa6fwi
>>
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