[PVRCNC] Fwd: [PVRC] Sending QSD or real RST for bad signals
Guy Olinger K2AV
k2av.guy at gmail.com
Thu Jun 3 10:19:47 EDT 2021
So in summary, they weren't "K3" clicks. Just Amp clicks.
My Alpha 8410 has amp clicks when I'm strong if you let the amp use it's
idle current minimizing trick, adding bias to reduce it without drive. The
99 has the same device. That's pretty good for SSB, but not for CW. It can
be disabled in firmware. It has a response time and modulates the front
edge of CW, *clipping off *the well-shaped K3 leading edge and making it
spikey.
Actually just connecting the ALC between some amps and ANY clean
transceiver can generate clicks. Iif a transceiver designer allows it to be
modulated by ALC (presumably to protect the final tubes) then allowing ANY
amp to do the drive level setting via ALC will generate clicks
Both N4AF and N4XD around NC parts have been afflicted with these issues.
Both were mortified when shown waveform recordings that they were
generating. Neither case had anything to do with the exciter. Howie uses
K3's and Ron has one of those new SDR's.
K3's have a 2005 vintage CPU and memory in it, (they first sold to public
in 2007, remember?) which has been loaded to the gills with signal
processing tasks for all kinds of options everyone was clamoring (and I do
mean clamoring) for, and if QRQ is not turned on for CW, a K3 starts to
CHANGE BAUD LENGTHS, which has nothing to do with key clicks. The option
simply redirects CPU time to handling very fast CW instead of other things.
K4 has a ton of processing time and memory (2021 vintage processors and
memory are slick, indeed).
You can generate keyclicks, heard in your headset, just about anywhere
between TX key contacts and RX audio out. It is subtle, tricky, hard to
discuss in a written medium, and very easy to get a flat wrong diagnosis.
Not saying I'm better than anyone else, certainly been there, done that.
Felt stupid, stupid, stupid, when I finally figured it out.
I know of one case where the AGC in the RX was generating the "spikey"
waveform. Another where diodic corrosion on an audio plug was doing it. Be
careful.
73, Guy K2AV
On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 9:27 AM Bert via PVRCNC <pvrcnc at mailman.qth.net>
wrote:
>
>
> Bruce, N1LN, brought my K3 key clicks to my attention a year or so back.
> He had successfully tackled that problem with his K3/Acom 2000A prior to
> noting my clicks. I also had the K3/Acom 2000A setup. The "fix" was to
> increase the TX "delay" from the default of 8 ms to 12...simple as
> that!Wave shaping in the K3 is factory preset and you can't change it (it's
> plenty good by itself...but when you add an amp, "things" change!)
> There, I've already told you more'n I know.
> 73, Bert N4CW
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: n4cw at aol.com
> To: tshoppa at gmail.com <tshoppa at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2021 9:15 am
> Subject: Re: [PVRC] Sending QSD or real RST for bad signals
>
> Bruce, N1LN, brought my K3 key clicks to my attention a year or so back.
> He had successfully tackled that problem with his K3/Acom 2000A prior to
> noting my clicks. I also had the K3/Acom 2000A setup. The "fix" was to
> increase the TX "delay" from the default of 8 ms to 12...simple as
> that!Wave shaping in the K3 is factory preset and you can't change it (it's
> plenty good by itself...but when you add an amp, "things" change!)
> There, I've already told you more'n I know.
> 73, Bert N4CW
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Shoppa <tshoppa at gmail.com>
> To: Nathan Moreschi <n4ydunate at gmail.com>
> Cc: PVRC <pvrc at mailman.qth.net>; Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2021 8:31 am
> Subject: Re: [PVRC] Sending QSD or real RST for bad signals
>
> This is what NN7CW's callsign looked like when he was sending it.
> The abrupt click at every leading edge (it actually sounds much more
> clicky than it looks) was what made me think amp relay sequencing, like a
> full QSK amp relay that wasn't nearly fast enough.
> Certainly is distinctive - the dah is five times longer than the dit. Take
> away the abrupt leading edge and it sounds sorta like K7SS on the bug
> (which is incredibly distinctive everyone knows it's DAN WA from just the
> SS).
>
>
> Tim N3QE
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021 at 7:34 PM Nathan Moreschi <n4ydunate at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> NN7CW often has choppy CW and he runs around 40 wpm frequently. I believe
> he uses K3s. Maybe he doesn't put the K3 in CW QRQ mode. The CW gets
> erratic on K3s if QRQ mode isn't enabled at high speeds.
> I'm not certain that is the case with newer K3 firmware.
> 73,
> Nate/N4YDU
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2021, 7:12 PM Pete Smith N4ZR <pete.n4zr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> When I had a problem with my amp's TR relay not closing enough, only the
> first character of the transmission was affected. Of course, I wasn't
> running QSK
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
> Check out the new Reverse Beacon Network
> web server at <http://beta.reversebeacon.net>.
> For spots, please use your favorite
> "retail" DX cluster.
>
> On 6/2/2021 5:14 PM, Tim Shoppa wrote:
> > I think NN7CW was bad amp relay sequencing.
> >
> > There were a LOT more stations with malformed dots and dahs presumably
> > due to remote latency?
> >
> > Tim N3QE
> >
> > On Wednesday, June 2, 2021, Ray Conrad NM2O <nm2o at outlook.com
> > <mailto:nm2o at outlook.com>> wrote:
> >
> > There have been many comments about bad signals. I didn't hear
> > K3JO, but there were many others.
> > I'm not quite sure how some get so wide on CW. Are they over
> > driving the amp while having clicks?
> >
> > QSD is "Your keying is defective."
> >
> > RST of 595 seem right for K3JO. See the linked article.
> >
> > Key clicks is K after the RST.
> >
> > Routine reporting of poor signals ought to be quite normal.
> >
> > I don't hear chirp very often these days. RST + C. Anyone
> > remember VP2LAT? They said "chirp so bad that we had almost no
> > dupes."
> >
> > Did anyone notice NN7CW? I wonder if the radio was ready to blow.
> > I can't quite describe his signal.
> >
> > Two articles:
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-S-T_system
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-S-T_system>
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code>
> >
> >
> > 73,
> > Ray
> >
> >
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