[PVRCNC] [PVRC] Arrl up to their same old digital aggression tricks!
Ted
tsrwvcomm at aol.com
Mon Sep 17 18:24:12 EDT 2018
Hi Jack,
Thanks for your note.
I don't know how "guilty" you are- you may be perfectly fine (I suspect you are), unless you are running in ARQ mode and others cannot intercept your transmissions over the air. Or unless you are violating the rules noted below. If you are in ARQ, the FCC has no way to decode your transmissions nor do other hams, so we won't know what traffic you are sending. Hopefully it all complies to FCC rules, but no one will know.
I agree on the "meet in the middle" comment. There should always be room for comprises, as life is short , and our hobby should offer a big tent.
The big problem is ARRL and Winlink advocates have been completely uncompromising.
Incredibly not so, despite thousands of outcries and efforts to engage over more than two decades.
You merely have to look back to the late 90's and early 2000's, when TAPR acquiesced to the ARRL umbrella, and the "ad hoc digital committee" was formed at ARRL. That committee had great hams like Peter Martinez and Skip Teller who resigned in disgust or were threatened with law suits when asking to be heard, but who were all ignored, silenced and threaten by law suits by various parties who wanted Winlink to be the dominant and gold standard for wideband digital, stemming from the original easily decoded Pactor 1.
The digital aggressors, and the no-holds-barred tactics implemented by that early "ad hoc digital radio " committee continues today - and their origins can clearly be seen in the ARRL minutes and QRZ.com reports from the early 2000's, as orchestrated by Winlink founders W5SMM and K4CJX, the latter who has the ear and trust of "supposed" good guy N6AA on the ARRL board.
To this day, the ARRL works in this same nasty, uncompromising manner on the issue of wideband data, never relenting or looking for compromise-- and never once admitting or dealing with the vast rule violations caused by this minority part of our hobby.
Ask your ARRL directors-- you will get a "no comment" or a blank stare if you ask about the majority of public concerns voiced st the FCC regarding: (i) the need to identify and monitor the radio transmissions of any data signal using readily available over-the-air interception equipment by third parties, as required by Part 97.113(a)(4) and 97.119(a) ; (ii) the technical requirements to ensure wide band data does not interfere with narrow band data (daily violations of 97.221 for ACDS); (iii) assurances that the amateur radio service will not be used to bypass commercial internet services or be used for commercial use as required by Part 97.1, 97.3(4), 97.113(a)(5), and (iv) that in the case of third party traffic, a control operator must be present at the control point to continuously monitor all third party participation as required by Part 97.115(b)(3).
Yes, compromise and meeting in the middle would be good.
But you must understand this is not the culture or practice of today's ARRL board members. It hasn't been for 2 decades. Someone (maybe ARRL's lawyer Imlay?) is ramming this policy at the FCC and IARU at every turn.
All incumbent directors need to be voted out, and then those perpetrating the digital aggression need to be dismounted from the ARRL.
All of us should take this somewhat seriously, get smart about what has and is happening, and get vocal.
Hey, I have a lot more things I could be doing with my time than writing an email about this. If I can spend some time getting up to speed on these FCC rules, and can see the daily violations that are happening NOW, even before Pactor 4 is allowed, don't you think it will get much Worse if the ARRL (or whatever staffer is behind it) have their way? Don't you think it is worth you getting up to speed, and to help spread the word?
Elections-
Without new directors, who control and can implement new approaches to legal representations by the ARRL, our hobby is headed for an encrypted wideband internet email system, eventually with all kinds of commerce and dark web activities. Look at recent ARRL minutes that ignore all the rule violations I noted above, but which take aim at curbing the low power 10 Hz wspr-x due to control operator issues.....
73, ted N9NB
Sent from smartphone, please excuse typos
> On Sep 17, 2018, at 1:45 PM, Jack Cochran <nokesradio at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well I guess I'm guilty
> I run a VHF UHF gateway for winlink I also operate HF up to P3 for emcomm and weekly Wednesday equipment checks. My station is not automatic and requires me to initiate all calls if a station of digital including CW is on frequency it says channel busy and immediately hault's or never starts
>
> Now I occasionally run hfale during events but mostly keep it on the shares mars frequency.
>
> In some cases I guess if you look at my pastor mail drop on 30m that I'm experimenting with that's the closest to auto I have running besides packet above 28 MHz.
>
> I understand why folks don't like the idea of P4 but I want you all to think of one thing. If you had a boat for recreational uses and wanted a way to communicate via visual text aka email. Would you use your ham license to do a daily or even twice winlink connection or spend thousands on a satellite system that doesn't work?
>
> There needs to be give from both ends keep in mind most users won't be buying a P4 modern that cost more than there radio. I had a good friend who upgraded help me out and I'm still dreaming of a 2nd one for portable to take in my traveling kit. When the bands are bad it just works
>
> My 2 cents I guess.
>
> Jack wc4j
>
>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 12:45 Tim Shoppa, <tshoppa at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Mike, I most often encounter QRM from automatic traffic-passing digital mode signals (characteristics of ALE chirping and sometimes as broadband as 2.4kHz) in the traditional US RTTY spectrum:
>>
>> 3580-3599kc (worse above 3585). And don't forget about ARRL code practice on 3582 on weeknights.
>> 7080-7099kc
>> 14098-14105kc
>>
>> I feel in the past couple years that the PACTOR/ALE modes in those parts of the spectrum have become better behaved and less likely to QRM me. Maybe they put some sort of carrier detection before they start their transmissions. It is still far from perfect.
>>
>> 7080-7082 is increasingly littered by FT8CALL in the past few months. To a lesser extent 3580-3582 and 14080-14082 as well. These used to be primary RTTY watering holes.
>>
>> Additionally, 7039kc-7041kc around the "traditional US CW QRP calling frequency" has been completely dominated by the never-ending droning of digital modes for almost a whole decade.
>>
>> Getting back to Ted's original point: The ARRL has traditionally been all about message handling which today means digital modes. The ARRL needs to step up and actually make sure that automatic digital message-handling modes do not QRM other ham activities, by strictly allocating spectrum to the automatic digital modes and making sure they don't go outside. When they cause QRM, and then hams go writing letters to FCC and making comments on FCC petitions for rulemaking, that looks super bad for ham radio when we are passing on these squabbles to FCC instead of settling them among ourselves and presenting a united front to FCC.
>>
>> Tim N3QE
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 11:06 AM Mike via PVRC <pvrc at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>>> Can anyone tell me the operating frequencies for this stuff. If they have the right to pile onto a busy frequency with impunity, I would like to have the same right. I am looking for some new frequencies on which to test my 1.5 kW amplifiers into a real (not dummy) load.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Mike
>>> W4AAW
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Barry <k3ndm at comcast.net>
>>> To: Jack Cochran <nokesradio at gmail.com>; Ted <tsrwvcomm at aol.com>
>>> Cc: PVRC <PVRC at mailman.qth.net>; ctdxcc <ctdxcc at lists.kkn.net>; PVRCNC <PVRCNC at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Mon, Sep 17, 2018 10:55 am
>>> Subject: Re: [PVRC] Arrl up to their same old digital aggression tricks!
>>>
>>> Jack,
>>> The Winlink network is worldwide. It does make a good service for text based mail. Additionally, the Winlink network is used for record traffic by the various emergency nets that hams participate in. It does work well and is robust. It is not a slow speed Inet service nor meant to be, just text mail.
>>>
>>> The real digital issue that is driving the ARRL is HFALE. There is a small group of hams that don't feel they should be bandwidth limited such that data rates stay as they are. They have been lobbying everywhere to greatly increase the rates. They would like to run the rates that the HF Industries Association can run with their commercial gear. That funny turkey gobble sound you hear is one of the ALE stations hailing.
>>>
>>> In a small nutshell, that's the story.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Barry
>>> K3NDM
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> From: "Jack Cochran" <nokesradio at gmail.com>
>>> To: "Ted" <tsrwvcomm at aol.com>
>>> Cc: "PVRC" <PVRC at mailman.qth.net>; ctdxcc at lists.kkn.net; PVRCNC at mailman.qth.net
>>> Sent: 9/17/2018 9:51:45 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PVRC] Arrl up to their same old digital aggression tricks!
>>>
>>>> Question
>>>> How is winlink providing internet to boaters? It is a minimal email service
>>>>
>>>> Jack wc4j
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 17 Sep 2018 09:16 Ted via PVRC, <pvrc at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>>>> I'm sorry to report that the ARRL wideband data aggression, and internet commerce ambitions, are on full display once again in front of the FCC and the world in the Florence hurricane.
>>>>
>>>> Here they are, publicly pushing for, receiving, and then lauding the FCC's Pactor 4 waiver for hurricane relief---again.
>>>>
>>>> This is just like in the Puerto Rico disaster in 2017, where they pushed for a Pactor 4 waiver, but then never once used Pactor 4 after getting such a FCC waiver, despite trying to amass a "force of 50" and after shipping radios for a failed publicity stunt.
>>>>
>>>> The League is simply relentless, and disingenuous, about what they want for the future of amateur radio.
>>>>
>>>> Their actions, here again, broadcast their aspirations for NPRM wt16-239 from the FCC- a rule change that would allow unlimited bandwidth, wideband email with guaranteed privacy and no interference protections for narrowband operations in all sections of our HF bands. The ARRL and others have moved in and cajoled ITU region 2 to set up Winlink stations in Central America for the first time last month.
>>>>
>>>> This is all part of a not-so-subtle move to obscure HF ham transmissions and enable commerce on our HF bands for use by Winlink as a big, no-cost ionospheric access point in the sky, for boaters to use free internet when sailing around the globe.
>>>>
>>>> Sadly, n6aa Dick Norton, an ARRL director, conveyed to me at Dayton 2018 that he sees boaters using HF for internet email to order occasional boat parts or supplies as a perfectly fine use for ham radio, and he has no concerns whatsoever of Pactor 4 and Winlink being used in HF, because the bands are empty, and Winlink leader Steve Waterman told him there is no problems or concerns!
>>>>
>>>> Shocking and telling to me is that, instead of looking at the thousands of public comments against RM-11708 and FCC's NPRM Wt16-239 that I told him about, N6AA instead doubled down on his position by telling me by email that he polled thousands of hams in Los Angels, and they all believe it's perfectly ok to order a pizza over 2m phone patch- I'm happy to share these emails for public consumption.
>>>>> http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-grants-arrl-temporary-waiver-request-to-permit-pactor-4-use-in-hurricane-relief
>>>>> Very very telling, and sad to me, to see ARRL's attorney Imlay leading this activity, pounding away before the FCC (he has been the lone ARRL lawyer for many, many decades, isn't licensed in CT, and seems to me to operate alone. I'm told his father- in-law was the ARRL lawyer for decades before him - wow- a single family dynasty representing the league's legal activities for 60+ years!).
>>>>> "ARRL’s request proposed limiting the use of PACTOR 4 to radio amateurs in the Continental US who are directly involved with the hurricane relief efforts involving the US mainland. “This request is without prejudice to the resolution of Docket 16-239 [the so-called “symbol rate” proceeding], which is presently pending and addresses the rule section discussed herein,” Imlay added"
>>>>> Submitted by K4CJX WDT
>>>>
>>>>> One can't help wonder -- why Pactor 3 couldn't suffice.
>>>>
>>>>> Well, no need to wonder-- we all know why!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The ARRL and Winlink/boating community wants to turn the HF spectrum into their free internet access point as they push the FCC NPRM at every turn, so that all wideband unlimited BW encrypted email can commence.
>>>>
>>>> At the same time, while Winlink has control operator violations and lack of ability to monitor over-the-air transmissions, the ARRL has voiced its concerns about the super narrow band wspr-x HF transmissions! What horse are they backing!?
>>>>
>>>> Please let your voices be heard in the director elections this year!
>>>>
>>>> New directors in *every* section are vitally needed, NOW, to add transparency and to investigate the current legal representation "dynasty" of the League.
>>>>
>>>> 73 ted N9NB
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