[PVRCNC] Electric fence wire experiences
Brian Alsop
alsopb at nc.rr.com
Tue Mar 11 07:56:22 EST 2008
I guess my experience is much different than Marty's. It may all depend
on what fence wire you buy.
The stuff I got at Home Depot quite a few years ago. It was, I believe,
15ga with a heavy galvanized coating.
The stuff was as springy as copperweld and as strong. If you kink it
and work the kink, yeah it will break.
At the time these was also 13 ga on the shelf. I guess the message is,
use your hands and eyes. If it feels like copperweld and looks well
galvanized, it's probably OK. Recently, I noticed that some place was
selling bare steel wire. UGH.
Long term the galvenized stuff will pit and eventually rust. (Like
galvanized chicken wire does). So some years down the road, you'll be
replacing them. A test of needing to do something is to pull up a bit
of a few radials and look. Also monitoring feedpoint impedance can
detect radial problems. If it goes up, you know you've lost some
effectiveness.
The flip side of all of this is. If you don't put something down, you
loose. If you do and it eventually dissolves, at least you have the
benefit for some period of time.
BTW I had no problem splicing it with a twisted join and soldering. Yes
you can solder galvanized metals. I've used a small butane torch and
100 watt Weller soldering iron. (Hate the butane torch. One can't see
the flame. That's a burn/fire waiting to happen)
The dissimilar metals issue at the ground plate underneath the vertical
is easily solved. Simply get an aluminum plate of suitable size.
Drill holes around the periphery to accept #8 screws. Install stainless
steel screws with lock washer on the back and a couple SS washers on the
front. Wrap the counterpoise wire around the screw post , install a
stainless washer and nut. Don't let the radial contact the plate
anywhere. Anything in contact with SS doesn't seem to have any galvanic
reaction. Thus galvanized, aluminum or copper can all be joined. If
you buy long screws, you can put several radial wires on the same
post. Just keep them apart with stainless washers if the metals are
dissimilar.
I use the galvanized electric fence wire for rx antennas too. The
problem is: it's too strong. If a tree or big branch falls on it, it
will tear up the termination or feed point. That was solved by
inserting a mechanical "fuse" somewhere along the length. The
mechanical fuse is two small aluminum plates with stainless screws and
washers on each end. A short length of easily breakable wire is
attached between the two plates. Rx antenna wire attached to the ends
of the plates. Hard to describe but easy to make. Since my RX
antennas run through the woods, fixing them is a 10x per year occurrence
or more.
73 de Brian/K3KO
Marty Young wrote:
>Having used electric fence wire for the purpose in
>which it was intended...electric fences...I can convey
>my experience with it...
>
>Guy is right, it is composed of a myriad of metals
>ranging from mostly steel (handles like copper-weld,
>no fun) to the better stuff that is more aluminum
>like, but stiffer.
>
>On the farm, one was required to "walk the fence line"
>once a month for maintenance. Putting aside the
>mechanical breaks from critters and clearing brush
>which don't apply here, I'd rate the stuff about half
>way between crappy and really crappy. It wouldn't
>solder, braze or weld very well. Mechanical
>connections just didn't stay together, and just after
>a couple of years it would start to deteriorate. It
>would seem to break spontaneously when no mechanical
>force was applied. The break looked like a fatigue
>break, but with no mechanical stress.
>
>Also, after a while it took more power (and a longer
>time) from the electric fence generator to achieve its
>charge, so I am assuming the resistance was increasing
>with time. Not something you would want in a ground
>field. The surface would corrode to the point you
>could actually touch the electric fence and only feel
>a "tingle" (a properly working electric fence will
>"rock your world" if you touch it, ask anyone who
>has!)
>
>I would maybe use this stuff for something temporary,
>but wouldn't put forth the work needed to place a
>large number of permanent radials using this stuff.
>
>My 2 cents. Hope it helps
>
>73 Marty / W4MY
>
>
>--- Guy Olinger <Guy.Olinger at sas.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>From: Guy Olinger <Guy.Olinger at sas.com>
>>To: pvrcnc <pvrcnc at mailman.qth.net>
>>Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:51:23 -0400
>>Subject: RE: [PVRCNC] ground radials
>>
>>Hmm. I went googling at "electric fence wire".
>>Apparently the term is not particularly descriptive
>>as to technical wire makeup, and the actual
>>constitution varies all over the map. Also I would
>>NOT trust labels on spools. Take a wire cutter and a
>>scraping knife and VERIFY what the stuff is.
>>Manufacturers don't give a flying c***p as long as
>>they get paid and p****d retail customers can't get
>>back at them. The cheeper the stuff is the worse it
>>gets.
>>
>>If it is steel, plated or not, and 17 gauge, it will
>>rust eventually. If it is entirely aluminum, there
>>will need to be a non-electrolytic transition to
>>copper at some point, and 17 gauge aluminum is very
>>hard to solder, will need entirely mechanical
>>connections.
>>
>>I once owned a house wired with aluminum, which
>>caused endless problems (copper shortage in late
>>sixties when house was built). I lived in it for 17
>>years and ALL the heavy current stuff was eventually
>>ripped out and replaced with copper. That in spite
>>of none of the corrosion/breakdown points being out
>>in the weather. Walls torn up, re-sheetrocked,
>>repainted, etc, etc. Outlets would quit working if
>>used a lot, and the answer was always pull outlet
>>out of box and retighten the screws holding down the
>>wire. If I'd known what I eventually knew and was
>>the original buyer, I would have gladly paid the
>>hefty premium to wire the house in copper. It cost
>>me well over double that eventually with all the
>>trouble to boot. So nobody will ever get me enthused
>>about aluminum wire in antennas.
>>
>>What the frustrated owner of a broadcast station
>>would do after having his radial field dug up three
>>times is probably not technically optimum (don't
>>they use 8 or 10 gauge?), and likely not the best
>>recommendation to a ham unless he expects the same
>>degree of vandalism.
>>
>>You certainly could expect to prove out a radial
>>concept by burying steel, but expect the results to
>>decay.
>>
>>Guy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>K2AV/Cynic-in-Cary/Apoplectic-in-Apex/Not-Convinced-in-North-Carolina
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Kent Winrich [mailto:kwinrich at gmail.com]
>>Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:19 PM
>>To: Guy Olinger
>>Cc: Tom; pvrcnc
>>Subject: Re: [PVRCNC] ground radials
>>
>>Broadcasters use it as replacement, especially when
>>the copper has
>>been ripped up for the 3rd time.
>>
>>On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Guy Olinger
>><Guy.Olinger at sas.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Go onto contesting.com and do a search in the
>>>
>>>
>>archives for the topband reflector. I recall that
>>there was something about electric fence wire that
>>made it unsuitable for burying or laying on the
>>ground. Electrolysis or something.
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: pvrcnc-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>>
>>[mailto:pvrcnc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
>>Kent Winrich
>>
>>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:03 PM
>>> To: Tom
>>> Cc: pvrcnc
>>> Subject: Re: [PVRCNC] ground radials
>>>
>>> Home Depot, Tractor Supply or Lowes. Look for
>>>
>>>
>>Electric fence wire.
>>
>>
>>> Can be bought in 1/4 MILE lengths.
>>>
>>> Kent
>>> K9EZ/4/lid/b0zo
>>> Fuquay-Varina, NC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Tom
>>>
>>>
>><n4tl2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> > WIRE
>>> >
>>> > Anyone know of a place where I can buy wire at
>>>
>>>
>>a low cost for ground radials?
>>
>>
>>> > Maybe surplus wire from the electric company?
>>> >
>>> > Tom, N4TL
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
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