[PVRCNC] ground radials

Mon Mar 10 20:50:48 EST 2008

Having used electric fence wire for the purpose in
which it was intended...electric fences...I can convey
my experience with it...

Guy is right, it is composed of a myriad of metals
ranging from mostly steel (handles like copper-weld,
no fun) to the better stuff that is more aluminum
like, but stiffer.

On the farm, one was required to "walk the fence line"
once a month for maintenance.  Putting aside the
mechanical breaks from critters and clearing brush
which don't apply here, I'd rate the stuff about half
way between crappy and really crappy.  It wouldn't
solder, braze or weld very well.  Mechanical
connections just didn't stay together, and just after
a couple of years it would start to deteriorate.  It
would seem to break spontaneously when no mechanical
force was applied.  The break looked like a fatigue
break, but with no mechanical stress.

Also, after a while it took more power (and a longer
time) from the electric fence generator to achieve its
charge, so I am assuming the resistance was increasing
with time.  Not something you would want in a ground
field.  The surface would corrode to the point you
could actually touch the electric fence and only feel
a "tingle" (a properly working electric fence will
"rock your world" if you touch it, ask anyone who
has!)

I would maybe use this stuff for something temporary,
but wouldn't put forth the work needed to place a
large number of permanent radials using this stuff.

My 2 cents.  Hope it helps

73  Marty / W4MY

--- Guy Olinger <Guy.Olinger at sas.com> wrote:

> From: Guy Olinger <Guy.Olinger at sas.com>
> To: pvrcnc <pvrcnc at mailman.qth.net>
> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:51:23 -0400
> Subject: RE: [PVRCNC] ground radials
> 
> Hmm.  I went googling at "electric fence wire". 
> Apparently the term is not particularly descriptive
> as to technical wire makeup, and the actual
> constitution varies all over the map. Also I would
> NOT trust labels on spools. Take a wire cutter and a
> scraping knife and VERIFY what the stuff is.
> Manufacturers don't give a flying c***p as long as
> they get paid and p****d retail customers can't get
> back at them. The cheeper the stuff is the worse it
> gets.
> 
> If it is steel, plated or not, and 17 gauge, it will
> rust eventually. If it is entirely aluminum, there
> will need to be a non-electrolytic transition to
> copper at some point, and 17 gauge aluminum is very
> hard to solder, will need entirely mechanical
> connections.
> 
> I once owned a house wired with aluminum, which
> caused endless problems (copper shortage in late
> sixties when house was built). I lived in it for 17
> years and ALL the heavy current stuff was eventually
> ripped out and replaced with copper. That in spite
> of none of the corrosion/breakdown points being out
> in the weather. Walls torn up, re-sheetrocked,
> repainted, etc, etc. Outlets would quit working if
> used a lot, and the answer was always pull outlet
> out of box and retighten the screws holding down the
> wire. If I'd known what I eventually knew and was
> the original buyer, I would have gladly paid the
> hefty premium to wire the house in copper. It cost
> me well over double that eventually with all the
> trouble to boot. So nobody will ever get me enthused
> about aluminum wire in antennas.
> 
> What the frustrated owner of a broadcast station
> would do after having his radial field dug up three
> times is probably not technically optimum (don't
> they use 8 or 10 gauge?), and likely not the best
> recommendation to a ham unless he expects the same
> degree of vandalism.
> 
> You certainly could expect to prove out a radial
> concept by burying steel, but expect the results to
> decay.
> 
> Guy
> 
>
K2AV/Cynic-in-Cary/Apoplectic-in-Apex/Not-Convinced-in-North-Carolina
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kent Winrich [mailto:kwinrich at gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 4:19 PM
> To: Guy Olinger
> Cc: Tom; pvrcnc
> Subject: Re: [PVRCNC] ground radials
> 
> Broadcasters use it as replacement, especially when
> the copper has
> been ripped up for the 3rd time.
> 
> On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Guy Olinger
> <Guy.Olinger at sas.com> wrote:
> > Go onto contesting.com and do a search in the
> archives for the topband reflector.  I recall that
> there was something about electric fence wire that
> made it unsuitable for burying or laying on the
> ground. Electrolysis or something.
> >
> >  -----Original Message-----
> >  From: pvrcnc-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:pvrcnc-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of
> Kent Winrich
> >  Sent: Monday, March 10, 2008 2:03 PM
> >  To: Tom
> >  Cc: pvrcnc
> >  Subject: Re: [PVRCNC] ground radials
> >
> >  Home Depot, Tractor Supply or Lowes.  Look for
> Electric fence wire.
> >  Can be bought in 1/4 MILE lengths.
> >
> >  Kent
> >  K9EZ/4/lid/b0zo
> >  Fuquay-Varina, NC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  On Mon, Mar 10, 2008 at 1:47 PM, Tom
> <n4tl2 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> >  > WIRE
> >  >
> >  > Anyone know of a place where I can buy wire at
> a low cost for ground radials?
> >  > Maybe surplus wire from the electric company?
> >  >
> >  > Tom, N4TL
> >  >
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > _______________________________________________
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