[Premium-Rx] Premium-Rx Digest, Vol 161, Issue 9
joseph.bozzer at skynet.be
joseph.bozzer at skynet.be
Thu Apr 2 12:07:31 EDT 2020
I personally think that the quality of a listening station is to be sought in the quality of its antenna
As in a stereo, it will always be the speakers and their ENVIRONMENT that will make its quality by the 0.001% distortion of the amplifier
By that I mean there is no point in having the best receiver in the world if you have a bad antenna and there is no point in having the best antenna in the world if you have a large source of noise nearby
In summary, I would say that the 3 fundamental questions to ask must be in this order:
1) environmental quality = good or bad?
Answer: if bad, choose the most suitable type of antenna to extract a suitable signal from this bad environment
For me: Long-wire antenna to be avoided!
2) quality of the antenna?
Answer: the one that most attenuates ambient noise
For me: magnetic LOOP
3) receiver?
Between prestige receivers, the differences in reception quality will always be insignificant
Answer: choose the model with the most user-friendly handling, simple and well-thought-out menus, quality buttons and above all high reliability
For me: complicated devices, with programmed or too specific components will become real problems when in 10 years they fail ... I will never buy a receiver built today because I know in advance that I will never be able to fix it myself
Joseph
Le 2 avr. 2020 à 5:49, premium-rx-request at mailman.qth.net a écrit :
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Longwave Receiver Recommendations? (L D Ritta)
2. Re: Longwave Receiver Recommendations? (Al Klase)
3. Re: Premium-Rx Digest, Vol 161, Issue 3 (Terry O')
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 01:57:16 +1030
From: "L D Ritta" <vk5abc at adam.com.au>
To: <sm0aom at telia.com>, <premium-rx at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Longwave Receiver Recommendations?
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I forgot the National HRO-500 which starts at 5khz
73's Lee de vk5abc
-----Original Message-----
From: premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net <premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of L D Ritta
Sent: Friday, 3 April 2020 1:53 AM
To: sm0aom at telia.com; premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Longwave Receiver Recommendations?
How does the cubic r3030 or harris r-2368 go
73's Lee de vk5abc
-----Original Message-----
From: premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net <premium-rx-bounces at mailman.qth.net> On Behalf Of sm0aom at telia.com
Sent: Friday, 3 April 2020 1:41 AM
To: premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Longwave Receiver Recommendations?
TRF receivers work as good as others, as long as their limitations are understood.
Regarding the actual performance differences, the main aspect for a LW receiver is the selectivity. Sensitivity or noise figure are secondary, as long as the antennas are above "minimum size".
When a reasonable compromise of antenna size is made, the large-signal performance is also somewhat secondary, as long as you do not live "next-door" to a transmitter site.
In my soon 40 years of professional practice, long-wave receivers have mostly been encountered in maritime/naval and SIGINT roles.
In the maritime services they were mostly used for 500 kHz watch-keeping or traffic channel, with quite small antennas, often long-wires or active antennas, the SRT AA300 was one common type.
The most common receivers were Drake RR-1 and Skanti R-5001s.
When the networks were reorganised, the RR-1 became phased-out and we standardised on the R-5001 for fixed frequency use and the SRT CR302 for frequency-agile use.
Naval users had the Racal RA-117 with the LF converter RA-137 well into the 80s, but they were phased out in favour of the CR302 during the late 80s. Submarine communications used RA-117 + RA-137s and some custom-built receivers for receiving shore-to-ship broadcasts.
When submarine LF/VLF Morse broadcasts were abandoned in favour of MSK some 20 years ago, the Navy purchased a British-made high-performance receiver+modem system from a manufacturer whose name has escaped me.
Most SIGINT people with interest in LW used the receiving system integrated in the Plath Watson-Watt DF equipment, sometimes supplemented with CR302 or CR91 receivers.
If there are many strong out-of-band interferers, it is advisable to have a tunable preselector in-front, such as the one integrated into the Skanti R-5001.
It was impossible to distinguish any performance differences by just listening, comparing the R-5001 and the SRT PS300 and CR302 combination on long-wave, despite the 1:4 price difference.
73/
Karl-Arne
SM0AOM
----Ursprungligt meddelande----
Fr?n : premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
Datum : 2020-04-02 - 16:15 ()
Till : premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
?mne : Re: [Premium-Rx] Longwave Receiver Recommendations?
How about the RAK and RBA ? They are ancient TRF boatanchor receivers
with regen detectors, but many people have been amazed at how well they can perform. There is no mixer noise or birdies, unless you turn the regen up too much. I had one about 50 years ago, and with a good
antenna it was amazing. In many ways, especially it's internal noise
floor, it was better than an R-389.
Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
On 4/2/20 7:38 AM, Clemens Ostergaard wrote:
> And as long as we are mentioning boat anchors, let us not forget the
> RCA SRR-11, with its range of 14-600 kcs and its 28 soldered in tubes.
> (and wonderful mechanical construction). Used to have one but let it
> go, because I could not establish the requisite antenna.
>
> Clemens
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 2:31 AM Heinz Breuer via Premium-Rx <
> premium-rx at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>
>> How about the AEG E 1800A, the later DSP version of the E 1800/3?
>> Also don?t forget the boatanchors R-389/URR, Telefunken E 108 LW and
>> Siemens E 311 e2 with E 350 longwave adapter or even a Lorenz Lo 6L39
>> which is the longwave version of the pre WW II short wave receiver Lo
>> 6K39. This is a TRF receiver with six tuned circuits.
>>
>> I have several of the receivers above (unfortunately no Lo 6L39) but
>> my location in the middle of severe man made noise from my neighbors
>> by switchmode power supplies, Chinese cell phone chargers and
>> powerline ethernet adapters makes reception difficult.
>>
>> vy 73 Heinz DH2FA, KM5VT
>>
>>
>>
>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>>
>>> Am 02.04.2020 um 00:16 schrieb Edward via Premium-Rx <
>> premium-rx at mailman.qth.net>:
>>> Greetings to the Group!
>>>
>>> I have built up quite a collection of Premium Rx and would like to
>>> know
>> what you would consider as the ideal rx for reception of the Longwave band.
>> I have high hopes for this, as I put up a couple of antennas that are
>> quite suitable for LW. I am also in the Middle East and hope to hear
>> some Europeans and N African stations, plus NDBs.
>>> I plan to dedicate 3-4 Rx for this so pls give me your top 3-5
>>> choices
>> from the following:
>>> -WJ HF-1000A
>>> -WJ 8711A
>>> -WJ URR-74
>>> -Harris R-2368
>>> -Racal RA-3791
>>> -Racal RA-6793
>>> -Racal RA-6790/GM
>>> -Hagenuk RX-1001M
>>> -AEG E1800/3 (aka Telefunken)
>>> -Telefunken E-1501
>>> -JRC NRD-93
>>> -JRC NRD-75
>>> -Drake RR-3
>>> -Collins 651-S1
>>>
>>> Plus some SDRs.
>>>
>>> Thanks & 73,
>>> Ed NI6S/7Z1ES
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Premium-Rx mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/premium-rx
>>> Help Page: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:
>>> Help Contact eMail: radio at 8zo.com
>>> Home Page: http://www.premium-rx.org/
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Premium-Rx mailing list
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>> Help Page: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>> radio at 8zo.com Home Page: http://www.premium-rx.org/
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:40:43 -0400
From: Al Klase <ark at ar88.net>
To: premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Longwave Receiver Recommendations?
Message-ID: <1ca6a18c-053a-76c0-e536-119ca910dcf7 at ar88.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION? -- ANTENNA, ANTENNA, ANTENNA
* Loops are a good bet if you don't have a lot of room.
* A tuned loop will give you front-end selectivity.
* Otherwise, most of these receivers with broadband front ends, might
need a low pass filter on the front end.
* I don't think there are any magic receivers.
My two cents,
Al
On 4/2/2020 11:10 AM, sm0aom at telia.com wrote:
> TRF receivers work as good as others, as long as their limitations are
> understood.
>
> Regarding the actual performance differences, the main aspect for a LW receiver
> is the selectivity. Sensitivity or noise figure are secondary, as long as the antennas are above "minimum size".
> When a reasonable compromise of antenna size is made, the large-signal performance is also somewhat secondary, as long as you do not live "next-door" to a transmitter site.
>
> In my soon 40 years of professional practice, long-wave receivers have mostly been encountered in maritime/naval and SIGINT roles.
>
> In the maritime services they were mostly used for 500 kHz watch-keeping or traffic channel,
> with quite small antennas, often long-wires or active antennas, the SRT AA300 was one common type.
>
> The most common receivers were Drake RR-1 and Skanti R-5001s.
> When the networks were reorganised, the RR-1 became phased-out and we standardised on the R-5001 for
> fixed frequency use and the SRT CR302 for frequency-agile use.
>
> Naval users had the Racal RA-117 with the LF converter RA-137 well into the 80s, but they were phased out
> in favour of the CR302 during the late 80s. Submarine communications used RA-117 + RA-137s and some custom-built receivers for receiving shore-to-ship broadcasts.
>
> When submarine LF/VLF Morse broadcasts were abandoned in favour of MSK some 20 years ago,
> the Navy purchased a British-made high-performance receiver+modem system from a manufacturer whose name has escaped me.
>
> Most SIGINT people with interest in LW used the receiving system integrated in the Plath Watson-Watt DF equipment,
> sometimes supplemented with CR302 or CR91 receivers.
>
> If there are many strong out-of-band interferers, it is advisable to have a tunable preselector in-front, such as the one integrated into the Skanti R-5001.
>
> It was impossible to distinguish any performance differences by just listening,
> comparing the R-5001 and the SRT PS300 and CR302 combination on long-wave, despite the 1:4 price difference.
>
>
> 73/
> Karl-Arne
> SM0AOM
>
>
> ----Ursprungligt meddelande----
> Fr?n : premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
> Datum : 2020-04-02 - 16:15 ()
> Till : premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
> ?mne : Re: [Premium-Rx] Longwave Receiver Recommendations?
>
> How about the RAK and RBA ? They are ancient TRF boatanchor receivers
> with regen detectors, but many people have been amazed at how well they
> can perform. There is no mixer noise or birdies, unless you turn the
> regen up too much. I had one about 50 years ago, and with a good
> antenna it was amazing. In many ways, especially it's internal noise
> floor, it was better than an R-389.
>
> Bruce Gentry, KA2IVY
>
>
> On 4/2/20 7:38 AM, Clemens Ostergaard wrote:
>> And as long as we are mentioning boat anchors, let us not forget the RCA
>> SRR-11, with its range of 14-600 kcs and its 28 soldered in tubes. (and
>> wonderful mechanical construction). Used to have one but let it go, because
>> I could not establish the requisite antenna.
>>
>> Clemens
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 2:31 AM Heinz Breuer via Premium-Rx <
>> premium-rx at mailman.qth.net> wrote:
>>
>>> How about the AEG E 1800A, the later DSP version of the E 1800/3?
>>> Also don?t forget the boatanchors R-389/URR, Telefunken E 108 LW and
>>> Siemens E 311 e2 with E 350 longwave adapter or even a Lorenz Lo 6L39 which
>>> is the longwave version of the pre WW II short wave receiver Lo 6K39. This
>>> is a TRF receiver with six tuned circuits.
>>>
>>> I have several of the receivers above (unfortunately no Lo 6L39) but my
>>> location in the middle of severe man made noise from my neighbors by
>>> switchmode power supplies, Chinese cell phone chargers and powerline
>>> ethernet adapters makes reception difficult.
>>>
>>> vy 73 Heinz DH2FA, KM5VT
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Von meinem iPhone gesendet
>>>
>>>> Am 02.04.2020 um 00:16 schrieb Edward via Premium-Rx <
>>> premium-rx at mailman.qth.net>:
>>>> Greetings to the Group!
>>>>
>>>> I have built up quite a collection of Premium Rx and would like to know
>>> what you would consider as the ideal rx for reception of the Longwave band.
>>> I have high hopes for this, as I put up a couple of antennas that are quite
>>> suitable for LW. I am also in the Middle East and hope to hear some
>>> Europeans and N African stations, plus NDBs.
>>>> I plan to dedicate 3-4 Rx for this so pls give me your top 3-5 choices
>>> from the following:
>>>> -WJ HF-1000A
>>>> -WJ 8711A
>>>> -WJ URR-74
>>>> -Harris R-2368
>>>> -Racal RA-3791
>>>> -Racal RA-6793
>>>> -Racal RA-6790/GM
>>>> -Hagenuk RX-1001M
>>>> -AEG E1800/3 (aka Telefunken)
>>>> -Telefunken E-1501
>>>> -JRC NRD-93
>>>> -JRC NRD-75
>>>> -Drake RR-3
>>>> -Collins 651-S1
>>>>
>>>> Plus some SDRs.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks & 73,
>>>> Ed NI6S/7Z1ES
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Premium-Rx mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/premium-rx
>>>> Help Page: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:
>>>> Help Contact eMail: radio at 8zo.com
>>>> Home Page: http://www.premium-rx.org/
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Premium-Rx mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/premium-rx
>>> Help Page: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:Premium-Rx at mailman.qth.net
>>> Help Contact eMail: radio at 8zo.com
>>> Home Page: http://www.premium-rx.org/
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Premium-Rx mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/premium-rx
>> Help Page: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Premium-Rx at mailman.qth.net
>> Help Contact eMail: radio at 8zo.com
>> Home Page: http://www.premium-rx.org/
> ______________________________________________________________
> Premium-Rx mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/premium-rx
> Help Page: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Premium-Rx at mailman.qth.net
> Help Contact eMail: radio at 8zo.com
> Home Page: http://www.premium-rx.org/
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Premium-Rx mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/premium-rx
> Help Page: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Premium-Rx at mailman.qth.net
> Help Contact eMail: radio at 8zo.com
> Home Page: http://www.premium-rx.org/
--
Al Klase ? N3FRQ
Jersey City, NJ
http://www.skywaves.ar88.net/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:49:08 -0500
From: Terry O' <watkins-johnson at terryo.org>
To: premium-rx at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Premium-Rx] Premium-Rx Digest, Vol 161, Issue 3
Message-ID: <08c5e171-5302-7898-f088-5a7c10bb6986 at terryo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
R-389?? UGH!? I bought two many years ago.? They weigh a ton and the
tuning is ungodly stiff.? Even after a full tear down, cleaning and
relube you'll wear out your wrist in a few minutes of scanning the
bands.? That's why the damn things have motorized tuning.? They are just
too laborious to manually tune.
The R-389 performance is, as expected, really good.? But even with top
notch tubes in the RF portions, the Watkins-Johnson 357 (R-1401) was
neck and neck in performance, if the local BCB transmitters were far
enough away.? The R-389 simply wasn't worth the weight, size, and tuning
hassles.? ? I sold them both when the fascination of owning something
rare, but not fun to use, wore off.
Nowadays, at home I use the WJ DMS-105 because switching supplies,
particularly for LED lighting, have flooded the lower end of the urban
radio spectrum.? When I travel I use a Tecsun PL-660 and an AirSpy HF+
(though I won an SDRPlay RSP1A at a hamfest and now like it better).? A
perfect trade off between performance and space in my carry on bag.? I
listened to a lot of LF and AM broadcasters from around the
Mediterranean while in rural southern France last fall.? The added bonus
is France shut down all its AM stations, except for one in Brittany, and
there were no IM problems.
Terry O'
On 4/2/2020 8:46 AM, Bob Betts wrote:
> Well, if you can't find a Collins 389...who can(!), you might want to c0nsider an upconverter. I've been using my R340 and 8711 barefoot with a quasi Beverage and decent lowpass filtering. It's hard to tell if the upconverter helps of running barefoot is better. There are times when one is a little cleaner than the other...then it flip-flops according to time of day/night, WX condx, etc. But that keeps the hobby fresh and fun. Also have good luck with 8718 and 6790GM.Gud sigs to all and please stay safe,Bob, N1KPRHere's a linkhttp://www.bobsamerica.com/upconv.html
>
>
>
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