[PCR-1000] Re: PCR-1000 digest, Vol 1 #136 - 10 msgs

Thu, 30 May 2002 17:51:40 -0300

poprfavor les pediria agradecidamente que no manden mas mensajes.
muchas gracias
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 1:01 PM
Subject: PCR-1000 digest, Vol 1 #136 - 10 msgs


> Send PCR-1000 mailing list submissions to
> [email protected]
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/pcr-1000
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> [email protected]
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> [email protected]
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of PCR-1000 digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. USB to Serial (Bryan Hoyer)
>    2. CWGet (Harry Flaxman)
>    3. Re: CWGet (david_a_stewart)
>    4. Re: CWGet (Harry Flaxman)
>    5. Re: CWGet ([email protected])
>    6. Re: CWGet (A10382)
>    7. Re: CWGet (George, W5YR)
>    8. Re: CWGet (david_a_stewart)
>    9. RE: CWGet (Matt Loretitsch)
>   10. Re: CWGet (Harry Flaxman)
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:20:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Bryan Hoyer <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [PCR-1000] USB to Serial
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> Dave:
>
> can't speak to the Mac side but I'm using a Keyspan
> USB to PDA adaptor successfully on my Compaq LapTop
> (Windows XP) which for some strange reason also runs
> the ICOM PCR-1000 SW just fine (My Sony Vaio throws up
> on the installation)
>
> Bought it at Fry's for $39.95 and downloaded the XP
> driver off the keyspan website.  Keyspan has Mac
> support.
>
> www.keyspan.com
>
> BTW just bought a UT-106 DSP any 3rd party SW for it?
>
> Bryan Hoyer
> KG6GEU
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup
> http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 2
> From: "Harry Flaxman" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 06:58:23 GMT
> Subject: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> Has anyone tried using the little program CWGet for decoding morse on the
CW
> bands?  If so, what is the trick behind getting this little application to
> work?  I have tuned in some CW morse transmissions, CWGet looks like it's
> getting the sound alright, but nothing is decoded on the screen no matter
> what I set the wpm or filters for.
>
> Just curious if anyone has had any luck with this little application.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Harry
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 3
> From: "david_a_stewart" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:06:07 +0100
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> Start the program. Tune in your CW signal you should see a peak on the
> spectrum display at the top of the screen. Click on the peak and then you
> should see the signal displayed in the bottom part of the screen. (blocks
> showing dots and dashes) either click the autothreshold button (top left)
or
> click somewhere in the middle of the blocks to set the threshold manually.
> Decoding should then follow automatically.
> The author has another prog called TrueTTY which works similarly,
>
> All the best
>
>
> Dave Stewart.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harry Flaxman" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 7:58 AM
> Subject: [PCR-1000] CWGet
>
>
> > Has anyone tried using the little program CWGet for decoding morse on
the
> CW
> > bands?  If so, what is the trick behind getting this little application
to
> > work?  I have tuned in some CW morse transmissions, CWGet looks like
it's
> > getting the sound alright, but nothing is decoded on the screen no
matter
> > what I set the wpm or filters for.
> >
> > Just curious if anyone has had any luck with this little application.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Harry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCR-1000 mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/pcr-1000
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 4
> From: "Harry Flaxman" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:18:49 GMT
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks, will give it a shot.  So far, I have been able to get nothing.
> There is a # sign in the middle of the program screen that looks like it's
a
> command prompt waiting for input.  I can get that to disappear by opening
my
> buffer.  I'm assuming this is what the program is waiting for, no?
>
> Harry
>
> On 30-May-2002, Dave wrote:
>
> > Start the program. Tune in your CW signal you should see a peak on the
> > spectrum display at the top of the screen. Click on the peak and then
you
> > should see the signal displayed in the bottom part of the screen.
(blocks
> > showing dots and dashes) either click the autothreshold button (top
left)
> > or
> > click somewhere in the middle of the blocks to set the threshold
manually.
> > Decoding should then follow automatically.
> > The author has another prog called TrueTTY which works similarly,
> >
> > All the best
> >
> >
> > Dave Stewart.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:06:18 -0400
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> yes it works great make sure the audio input is highe enaough and
sometimes it helps to select log scale for the two displays so its easier to
see the signals
>
> I usually turn off the auto threshold and the AFC
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 6
> From: "A10382" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 10:31:52 -0400
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> Hi Harry,
>
> I had tried this a while ago and wasn't able to get it to work well.
>
> I have been using 'CWDecoder2' (de Grant Connell, WD6CNF) which also has a
> 'type' function.  This appears, at least for me, to work better than
others.
> I Don't know whether that's fact or just a form of 'halo effect' -- liking
> what you're using.
>
> All of the CW decoders I've tried all appear to need some short 'learn'
> period to get synced up and detect speed, dit-dah ratio, and spacing.
> Because of the apparent learn period, they seem to miss station IDs and
very
> short (1x1) CQs.
> -----------
> For FSK and QSK, I've had good luck with PSK31 (de Peter Martinez -
G3PLX),
> It does SEND, but does not decode CW (also does 'Inverted' QPSK).
Sometimes
> I have it on just to send station id while on long SSB phone session -
just
> crank up the PC speaker and the id is picked up by the mike.  ARRL has a
> rather long document on their web site about setting up and running PSK31
> (including a few hints and kinks) -- just do a search on their site for
> "PSK31".
>
> I have been playing with a few RTTY shareware/freeware apps, but haven't
yet
> spent enough time with them to come to any opinions.
>
> As always, be interested in hearing from, and learning from, other users.
>
> 73
> Frank
>
>  ._._.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harry Flaxman" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:58 AM
> Subject: [PCR-1000] CWGet
>
>
> > Has anyone tried using the little program CWGet for decoding morse on
the
> CW
> > bands?  If so, what is the trick behind getting this little application
to
> > work?  I have tuned in some CW morse transmissions, CWGet looks like
it's
> > getting the sound alright, but nothing is decoded on the screen no
matter
> > what I set the wpm or filters for.
> >
> > Just curious if anyone has had any luck with this little application.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Harry
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PCR-1000 mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/pcr-1000
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 09:48:15 -0500
> From: "George, W5YR" <[email protected]>
> Organization: AT&T WorldNet Service
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> CWGet, like most such programs, requires almost perfect signals in order
> for the decoding to be accurate. That means a minimum of noise and
> absolutely correct tuning and timing of the signal. Most amateur radio CW
> is marginal in timing such that most programs give fairly poor results.
> That is not true of all stations since many use keyboards and
> computer-generated code with perfect timing.
>
> A further stringent requirement for machine decoding of CW is the need for
> correct signal level management. If the signal to be copied is of too high
> amplitude or of too low amplitude, the decoding logic is prevented from
> operating correctly. Since it is common for amateur CW signals to vary in
> amplitude with time due to band conditions, interference, etc. a receiver
> with very effective AGC is required to maintain a fairly constant signal
> level to the decoding program.
>
> In view of these requirements and based upon a great deal of listening, I
> have to conclude that the PCR1000 is uniquely *unsuited* for CW reception
> for any purpose. It is literally, as the old saying goes, "as broad as a
> barn door" on CW and the SSB modes and suffers from a lack of
> "single-signal" reception on CW as well. That means that you can tune in a
> CW station on "both sides of zero beat." While this does not prevent most
> humans from reading such code, the effect of the wide bandwidth is to
> contaminate the desired received signal with all manner of noise and
> interference from other stations.
>
> My 1000 does not have the DSP module, and it may be that the additional
> audio filtering it provides might make the signal more decodeable. In the
> absence of the internal DSP, one could add an external audio digital
> processor and improve upon the selectivity shortcoming.
>
> The second area of substantial shortcoming for the 1000 is the lack of
> capability of the front-end circuitry to deal with strong signals. The
> result of the lack of adequate selectivity both in the IF and the front
end
> is that strong signals tend to take over the AGC and dominate the receiver
> function. Multiple strong signals cross-modulate and inter-modulate to
such
> an extent that they become just a jumble of "noise." The use of either
> internal or external DSP filtering cannot overcome the deterioration of
> signals produced by an inadequate front end.
>
> The bottom line is that these two shortcomings of the 1000 play a major
> role in restricting the uses of the radio. I hate to rain on anyone's
> parade, but for CW monitoring the PCR-1000 is just not a suitable radio to
> use.
>
> I might add that the Icom R-10 scanner-sized "comunications receiver" has
> about the same shortcomings with a serious lack of selectivity. I called
> the Icom technical support people shortly after getting my R-10 and they
> explained that the operational problems that I noticed were normal for the
> radio since it was just too small to contain effective filters.
>
> I have found that of all the digital programs with CW capability, MixW is
> the only one that can provide consistently accurate copy of marginal
> signals. It provides over 20 signal modes, including most of the digital
> modes and CW, SSB, SSTV, etc. But even MixW requires clean signals and
> narrow bandwidths to remove as much interference and noise as possible.
>
> These are interesting little receivers for casual monitoring, but their
> shortcomings in the areas of selectivity and front-end robustness rule out
> any serious use for communications and limit their applications for
> monitoring. I bought the first PCR-1000 sold at Texas Towers when they
> first came out and one of the first R-10 receivers. Many hours of
listening
> to these little receivers have demonstrated the deficiencies described
> above.
>
> 73/72/oo, George W5YR - the Yellow Rose of Texas
> Fairview, TX 30 mi NE of Dallas in Collin county EM13qe
> Amateur Radio W5YR, in the 56th year and it just keeps getting better!
> QRP-L 1373 NETXQRP 6 SOC 262 COG 8 FPQRP 404 TEN-X 11771 I-LINK 11735
> Icom IC-756PRO #02121  Kachina 505 DSP  #91900556  Icom IC-765 #02437
>
>
>
>
>
> Harry Flaxman wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone tried using the little program CWGet for decoding morse on
the CW
> > bands?  If so, what is the trick behind getting this little application
to
> > work?  I have tuned in some CW morse transmissions, CWGet looks like
it's
> > getting the sound alright, but nothing is decoded on the screen no
matter
> > what I set the wpm or filters for.
> >
> > Just curious if anyone has had any luck with this little application.
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 8
> From: "david_a_stewart" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 16:12:14 +0100
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> Harry
> Is this what you see
>
> CwGet  V1.25
> (c) 1999-2002 Sergei Podstrigailo, UA9OSV
> Use mouse to select sound band and detector
> threshold.
> #
>
> This is the normal welcome message when you start the program. I clear
this
> and then start receiving and the messages appear in this window. The
window
> above should show the signal sound spectrum with several peaks if you have
a
> busy part of the band. If you have nothing there then your connection to
the
> radio is suspect.
> Main filter 140
> burst filter 200 works for me
> red line in window below shows threshold setting. this should be close to
> middle of signal. Alternatively click autothresh and it follows the signal
> level.
> the program appears to mute my sound card output so i have to use the
radio
> speaker to check for signals. The program is sensitive to noise but i work
> on cleaning up the signals.
>
> hope this helps
>
> dave
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Harry Flaxman" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
>
>
> > Dave,
> >
> > Thanks, will give it a shot.  So far, I have been able to get nothing.
> > There is a # sign in the middle of the program screen that looks like
it's
> a
> > command prompt waiting for input.  I can get that to disappear by
opening
> my
> > buffer.  I'm assuming this is what the program is waiting for, no?
> >
> > Harry
> >
> >
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 9
> From: Matt Loretitsch <[email protected]>
> To: "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:26:10 -0400
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> I agree that it is not the solution for CW monitoring.  I mentioned once
> before though that it IS more resistant to front end overload than my
other
> receivers (yaesu FRG-100 and the vr-120 small handheld unit among others)
>
> Two main sources of noise for me are an FM transmitter on 107.9 close to
my
> house and also the national weather service on 162.55.  The first
completely
> wipes out my frg-100, not a problem with the Icom.  I just don't see the
> glaring front end problems everyone else does.
>
> Yeah it's not your 756pro (I've used them and find the LCD screen a little
> less sharp than I'd like, but otherwise a pleasure to use), but it IS cost
> effective =)  I like the filtering options on the 756 by the way.. Cool!
I
> can't afford a 3k rig though so I have to stick up for the little icom.
> *grin*
>
> -Matt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George, W5YR [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:48 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
>
>
> CWGet, like most such programs, requires almost perfect signals in order
for
> the decoding to be accurate. That means a minimum of noise and absolutely
> correct tuning and timing of the signal. Most amateur radio CW is marginal
> in timing such that most programs give fairly poor results. That is not
true
> of all stations since many use keyboards and computer-generated code with
> perfect timing.
>
> A further stringent requirement for machine decoding of CW is the need for
> correct signal level management. If the signal to be copied is of too high
> amplitude or of too low amplitude, the decoding logic is prevented from
> operating correctly. Since it is common for amateur CW signals to vary in
> amplitude with time due to band conditions, interference, etc. a receiver
> with very effective AGC is required to maintain a fairly constant signal
> level to the decoding program.
>
> In view of these requirements and based upon a great deal of listening, I
> have to conclude that the PCR1000 is uniquely *unsuited* for CW reception
> for any purpose. It is literally, as the old saying goes, "as broad as a
> barn door" on CW and the SSB modes and suffers from a lack of
> "single-signal" reception on CW as well. That means that you can tune in a
> CW station on "both sides of zero beat." While this does not prevent most
> humans from reading such code, the effect of the wide bandwidth is to
> contaminate the desired received signal with all manner of noise and
> interference from other stations.
>
> My 1000 does not have the DSP module, and it may be that the additional
> audio filtering it provides might make the signal more decodeable. In the
> absence of the internal DSP, one could add an external audio digital
> processor and improve upon the selectivity shortcoming.
>
> The second area of substantial shortcoming for the 1000 is the lack of
> capability of the front-end circuitry to deal with strong signals. The
> result of the lack of adequate selectivity both in the IF and the front
end
> is that strong signals tend to take over the AGC and dominate the receiver
> function. Multiple strong signals cross-modulate and inter-modulate to
such
> an extent that they become just a jumble of "noise." The use of either
> internal or external DSP filtering cannot overcome the deterioration of
> signals produced by an inadequate front end.
>
> The bottom line is that these two shortcomings of the 1000 play a major
role
> in restricting the uses of the radio. I hate to rain on anyone's parade,
but
> for CW monitoring the PCR-1000 is just not a suitable radio to use.
>
> I might add that the Icom R-10 scanner-sized "comunications receiver" has
> about the same shortcomings with a serious lack of selectivity. I called
the
> Icom technical support people shortly after getting my R-10 and they
> explained that the operational problems that I noticed were normal for the
> radio since it was just too small to contain effective filters.
>
> I have found that of all the digital programs with CW capability, MixW is
> the only one that can provide consistently accurate copy of marginal
> signals. It provides over 20 signal modes, including most of the digital
> modes and CW, SSB, SSTV, etc. But even MixW requires clean signals and
> narrow bandwidths to remove as much interference and noise as possible.
>
> These are interesting little receivers for casual monitoring, but their
> shortcomings in the areas of selectivity and front-end robustness rule out
> any serious use for communications and limit their applications for
> monitoring. I bought the first PCR-1000 sold at Texas Towers when they
first
> came out and one of the first R-10 receivers. Many hours of listening to
> these little receivers have demonstrated the deficiencies described above.
>
> 73/72/oo, George W5YR - the Yellow Rose of Texas
> Fairview, TX 30 mi NE of Dallas in Collin county EM13qe
> Amateur Radio W5YR, in the 56th year and it just keeps getting better!
QRP-L
> 1373 NETXQRP 6 SOC 262 COG 8 FPQRP 404 TEN-X 11771 I-LINK 11735 Icom
> IC-756PRO #02121  Kachina 505 DSP  #91900556  Icom IC-765 #02437
>
> --__--__--
>
> Message: 10
> From: "Harry Flaxman" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [PCR-1000] CWGet
> Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 15:54:38 GMT
> Reply-To: [email protected]
>
> Frank,
>
>  I don't think the reception of CW on my particular unit is stable enough
to
>  get this utility to work very well.  First of all, I have to keep
adjusting
>  the squelch to keep the CW signal coming in properly.  Second of all, I
>  don't get a great CW signal to start with.  No real dit-dah, but a
>  scratchy, noisy sounding CW signal on all communications.  I think this
is
>  a shortcoming of the radio, not the signal I'm receiving.  I do have the
>  DSP, but find it doesn't do much for a CW signal coming in.
>
> Thanks.
>
>  Harry
> >
> > On 30-May-2002,  wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Harry,
> > >
> > > I had tried this a while ago and wasn't able to get it to work well.
> > >
> > > I have been using 'CWDecoder2' (de Grant Connell, WD6CNF) which also
has
> > > a
> > > 'type' function.  This appears, at least for me, to work better than
> > > others.
> > > I Don't know whether that's fact or just a form of 'halo effect' --
> > > liking
> > > what you're using.
> > >
> > > All of the CW decoders I've tried all appear to need some short
'learn'
> > > period to get synced up and detect speed, dit-dah ratio, and spacing.
> > > Because of the apparent learn period, they seem to miss station IDs
and
> > > very
> > > short (1x1) CQs.
> > > -----------
> > > For FSK and QSK, I've had good luck with PSK31 (de Peter Martinez -
> > > G3PLX),
> > > It does SEND, but does not decode CW (also does 'Inverted' QPSK).
> > > Sometimes
> > > I have it on just to send station id while on long SSB phone session -
> > > just
> > > crank up the PC speaker and the id is picked up by the mike.  ARRL has
a
> > > rather long document on their web site about setting up and running
> > > PSK31
> > > (including a few hints and kinks) -- just do a search on their site
for
> > > "PSK31".
> > >
> > > I have been playing with a few RTTY shareware/freeware apps, but
haven't
> > > yet
> > > spent enough time with them to come to any opinions.
> > >
> > > As always, be interested in hearing from, and learning from, other
> > > users.
> > >
> > > 73
> > > Frank
>
>
>
> --__--__--
>
> _______________________________________________
> PCR-1000 mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/pcr-1000
>
>
> End of PCR-1000 Digest