[OKDXA] 3D2CR Operation not allowed

[Thomas Webb]

Well done young man!!!!

Tom, WA9AFM 

-----Original Message-----
From: okdxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:okdxa-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On
Behalf Of Roger Simpson
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 6:02 PM
To: Oklahoma DX Association
Subject: Re: [OKDXA] 3D2CR Operation not allowed


I don't think the ARRL has specifically ruled on whether FT8 F/H mode is
considered as "direct contemporaneous" initiation by both sides of the QSO.
However, the de-facto condition is that thousands of QSOs that support DXCC
credits are using FT8 F/H QSOs. So I guess the horse has already left the barn
on this one. I have worked a number of "new band mode countries" for DXCC credit
using FT8 F/H. I was not aware of the "direct contemporaneous" rule that
evidently dates back a few years. I think FT8 F/H does meet the "direct
contemporaneous" rule because it requires real time control by operators at both
ends of the QSO. It should be noted that even if one or both operations are
running remotely they are still operating under real time control of an
operator. So I think FT8 F/H meets the criterion of the ARRL requirement.  

I think a plain reading of the need for "direct contemporaneous" operation is
separate from whether one or both stations are running remotely. I don't know
anything about the proposed Rebel Group activation of Bouvet. I don't know what
aspect of their proposed operation would not be within the DXCC rules. 

I am not familiar with customized versions of WSJT-X which might support
operating style that does not require "direct contemporaneous" operation by ops
on both sides.  

P.S. After working on this for many years I just received my 5 band DXCC award
with endorsement for 30m, 17m and 12m. I decided to splurge and buy a plaque and
an endorsement medallion. Both of those together set me back $91.00. 

73  Roger    K5RKS  

Sent from Mail for Windows

From: Kim Elmore
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2021 4:22 PM
To: okdxa at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [OKDXA] 3D2CR Operation not allowed

I've wondered about this very thing for quite a while. How do we *know* if an
operation is automated or not? The non-computer modes are harder to automate,
though I suspect CW would be relatively easy; SSB not so much. Automated QSOs
been talked about since the 80's in a tongue-in-cheek way, but it's now very
clearly a reality.

73,

Kim N5OP


On 10/23/2021 4:51 AM, Jeff Martin wrote:
>  >> From DX News: > 3D2CR Conway Reef IOTA News 23 October 2021 3D2CR 
operation by > Dominik Grzyb from Conway Reef, September 2021 IOTA 
Management > regrets that it will not be able to accept for IOTA credit 
contacts > made with the 3D2CR operation from Conway Reef between 18 and 
25 > September 2021. Dominik has not been able to show that his FT4/FT8 
 > activity complied with IOTA rule B.3.10 on which clarification was > 
given in a Management News Item on 10 September. At Dominik's request > 
credit will also not be given for a small number of contacts made on > 
SSB. Management wishes to draw IOTA DXpeditioners' attention to its > 
policy of only accepting for IOTA credit contacts that result from > 
contemporaneous direct initiation by the operators on both sides of > 
the contact. Automated contacts, i.e. contacts not initiated and > 
completed personally by both operators at the time of QSO are not > 
acceptable in a programme founded on an ethos of recognising personal > 
operating performance and skill. Team IOTA, 23 October 2021 > > In other 
words, Dom was doing automated mode QSOs on FT4/FT8. IOTA > does not 
allow automated QSOs. Wonder what ARRL position is regarding > automated 
QSOs counting for DXCC? And how would you know if the op > was running 
in automated mode? Would automated but operator monitored > be OK? It 
appears several recent Dxpeditions are using clone software > which may 
have the automated feature rather than WSJT-X... Are they > going to 
throw all of them out? Again, how do you know? Seems like a > losing 
effort to me... If the technology exists it will be used... > Any 
thoughts? > > 73, Jeff - K5WE > >
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