[Milsurplus] Lion Air 737
Francesco Ledda
frledda at att.net
Mon Dec 31 21:30:58 EST 2018
From an article an Aviation Week and Space Technology I understood that the stab was going up and down. Usually, when a stab runs away, it goes to a stop and stays there. I do not know the 737, but the DC-9 had a stab position indicator as well. In the case of a stab run away, the thing to do was to fly the plane, with the other pilot disconnecting the switches and than run the stab manually.
Apparently, two previous crews had experienced the same problem, disconnected the stab and flew back. So, two other crews managed the emergency properly. The management computer told pilots and maintenance about a disagreement between the two AOAs. Ground crew should have grounded the plane and follow procedures; instead, they pulled the breakers and reset the computer to make the fault go away.
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 31, 2018, at 19:34, "lbfulton at windstream.net" <lbfulton at windstream.net> wrote:
>
> No, there is not a single switch to disable all automatic flt. controls on any model of the 737. That would mean disabling mach trim, yaw damper, elevator feel, rudder load limiter, flap load relief, etc. Worked on them for 45 yrs. Why these two pilots did not throw the stab. trim cutout switches, and turn the manual trim wheels to control the aircraft is a mystery to me. I'm no pilot, but a retired airline mechanic. After reading several articles, particularly one from a guy that knows his stuff in the Seattle paper, I'm scratching my head over this one.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:28:33 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Milsurplus Digest, Vol 176, Issue 25
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (Peter Gottlieb)
> 2. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (David Stinson)
> 3. OT Lion Air 737 (k2cby at optonline.net)
> 4. Re: OT Lion Air 737 (Francesco Ledda)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:21:24 -0500
> From: Peter Gottlieb <kb2vtl at gmail.com>
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] ( OT ) Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <e2db0d52-42b0-d654-b548-4480c18927eb at gmail.com>
> No, there is not a single switch to disable all automatic flt. controls on any model of the 737. That would mean disabling mach trim, yaw damper, elevator feel, rudder load limiter, flap load relief, etc. Worked on them for 45 yrs. Why these two pilots did not throw the stab. trim cutout switches, and turn the manual trim wheels to control the aircraft is a mystery to me. I'm no pilot, but a retired airline mechanic. After reading several articles, particularly one from a guy that knows his stuff in the Seattle paper, I'm scratching my head over this one.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:28:33 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Milsurplus Digest, Vol 176, Issue 25
>
> Send Milsurplus mailing list submissions to
> milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> milsurplus-owner at mailman.qth.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Milsurplus digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (Peter Gottlieb)
> 2. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (David Stinson)
> 3. OT Lion Air 737 (k2cby at optonline.net)
> 4. Re: OT Lion Air 737 (Francesco Ledda)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:21:24 -0500
> From: Peter Gottlieb <kb2vtl at gmail.com>
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] ( OT ) Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <e2db0d52-42b0-d654-b548-4480c18927eb at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Lucky for him the engine would restart every time!?? (hopefully...)
>
>
>> On 12/30/2018 11:40 PM, KD7JYK DM09 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 12/30/2018 20:39, KD7JYK DM09 wrote:
>>> "Maybe my instructors were more sadistic than yours."
>>>
>>> Mine had a fuel cutoff switch under his seat and would hit it just after
>>> liftoff, just after the end of the runway, mid-turn, et cetera, to see if you
>>> respond adequately.? Sometimes he would just reach across and kill the magnetos.
>>>
>>> Kurt
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Milsurplus mailing list
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>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 08:05:25 -0600
> From: "David Stinson" <arc5 at ix.netcom.com>
> To: <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] ( OT ) Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>> From my role model and hero, Montgomery Scott:
>
>
>
> "The more complicated they make the plumbing,
>
> the easier it is to stop-up the drain."
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 10:25:02 -0500
> From: <k2cby at optonline.net>
> To: <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Milsurplus] OT Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The Lion Air ground staff was clearly negligent in failing to troubleshoot
> the attitude sensor issue after the prior incident.
>
> Boeing was equally negligent in failing to incorporate the second "stall
> recovery system" disconnect in its training program and flight manual.
>
> Above all, there should be a single switch to disable all of the automatic
> flight control systems and restore the aircraft to manual control.
>
>
>
> Miles B. Anderson, K2CBY
> 16 Round Pond Lane
> Sag Harbor, New York 11963-3821
> Phone: (631) 725-4400
> FAX: (631) 725-2223
>
> e-mail: k2cby at optimum.net
>
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 12:18:09 -0600
> From: Francesco Ledda <frledda at att.net>
> To: k2cby at optonline.net
> Cc: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] OT Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <7A286823-0B05-4D97-A891-03D42D9389FC at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> There is a single switch!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 31, 2018, at 09:25, <k2cby at optonline.net> <k2cby at optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> The Lion Air ground staff was clearly negligent in failing to troubleshoot the attitude sensor issue after the prior incident.
>> Boeing was equally negligent in failing to incorporate the second ?stall recovery system? disconnect in its training program and flight manual.
>> Above all, there should be a single switch to disable all of the automatic flight control systems and restore the aircraft to manual control.
>>
>> Miles B. Anderson, K2CBY
>> 16 Round Pond Lane
>> Sag Harbor, New York 11963-3821
>> Phone: (631) 725-4400
>> FAX: (631) 725-2223
>> e-mail: k2cby at optimum.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Milsurplus mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>
>
> End of Milsurplus Digest, Vol 176, Issue 25
> *******************************************
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Milsurplus mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Sent from my iPad
> On Dec 31, 2018, at 19:34, "lbfulton at windstream.net" <lbfulton at windstream.net> wrote:
>
> No, there is not a single switch to disable all automatic flt. controls on any model of the 737. That would mean disabling mach trim, yaw damper, elevator feel, rudder load limiter, flap load relief, etc. Worked on them for 45 yrs. Why these two pilots did not throw the stab. trim cutout switches, and turn the manual trim wheels to control the aircraft is a mystery to me. I'm no pilot, but a retired airline mechanic. After reading several articles, particularly one from a guy that knows his stuff in the Seattle paper, I'm scratching my head over this one.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:28:33 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Milsurplus Digest, Vol 176, Issue 25
>
> Send Milsurplus mailing list submissions to
> milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> milsurplus-owner at mailman.qth.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Milsurplus digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (Peter Gottlieb)
> 2. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (David Stinson)
> 3. OT Lion Air 737 (k2cby at optonline.net)
> 4. Re: OT Lion Air 737 (Francesco Ledda)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:21:24 -0500
> From: Peter Gottlieb <kb2vtl at gmail.com>
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] ( OT ) Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <e2db0d52-42b0-d654-b548-4480c18927eb at gmail.com>
> No, there is not a single switch to disable all automatic flt. controls on any model of the 737. That would mean disabling mach trim, yaw damper, elevator feel, rudder load limiter, flap load relief, etc. Worked on them for 45 yrs. Why these two pilots did not throw the stab. trim cutout switches, and turn the manual trim wheels to control the aircraft is a mystery to me. I'm no pilot, but a retired airline mechanic. After reading several articles, particularly one from a guy that knows his stuff in the Seattle paper, I'm scratching my head over this one.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 13:28:33 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Milsurplus Digest, Vol 176, Issue 25
>
> Send Milsurplus mailing list submissions to
> milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> milsurplus-request at mailman.qth.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> milsurplus-owner at mailman.qth.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Milsurplus digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (Peter Gottlieb)
> 2. Re: ( OT ) Lion Air 737 (David Stinson)
> 3. OT Lion Air 737 (k2cby at optonline.net)
> 4. Re: OT Lion Air 737 (Francesco Ledda)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 00:21:24 -0500
> From: Peter Gottlieb <kb2vtl at gmail.com>
> To: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] ( OT ) Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <e2db0d52-42b0-d654-b548-4480c18927eb at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Lucky for him the engine would restart every time!?? (hopefully...)
>
>
>> On 12/30/2018 11:40 PM, KD7JYK DM09 wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On 12/30/2018 20:39, KD7JYK DM09 wrote:
>>> "Maybe my instructors were more sadistic than yours."
>>>
>>> Mine had a fuel cutoff switch under his seat and would hit it just after
>>> liftoff, just after the end of the runway, mid-turn, et cetera, to see if you
>>> respond adequately.? Sometimes he would just reach across and kill the magnetos.
>>>
>>> Kurt
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Milsurplus mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 08:05:25 -0600
> From: "David Stinson" <arc5 at ix.netcom.com>
> To: <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] ( OT ) Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>> From my role model and hero, Montgomery Scott:
>
>
>
> "The more complicated they make the plumbing,
>
> the easier it is to stop-up the drain."
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/milsurplus/attachments/20181231/5236c414/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 10:25:02 -0500
> From: <k2cby at optonline.net>
> To: <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: [Milsurplus] OT Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The Lion Air ground staff was clearly negligent in failing to troubleshoot
> the attitude sensor issue after the prior incident.
>
> Boeing was equally negligent in failing to incorporate the second "stall
> recovery system" disconnect in its training program and flight manual.
>
> Above all, there should be a single switch to disable all of the automatic
> flight control systems and restore the aircraft to manual control.
>
>
>
> Miles B. Anderson, K2CBY
> 16 Round Pond Lane
> Sag Harbor, New York 11963-3821
> Phone: (631) 725-4400
> FAX: (631) 725-2223
>
> e-mail: k2cby at optimum.net
>
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/milsurplus/attachments/20181231/078a7eed/attachment-0001.html>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2018 12:18:09 -0600
> From: Francesco Ledda <frledda at att.net>
> To: k2cby at optonline.net
> Cc: milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] OT Lion Air 737
> Message-ID: <7A286823-0B05-4D97-A891-03D42D9389FC at att.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> There is a single switch!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 31, 2018, at 09:25, <k2cby at optonline.net> <k2cby at optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> The Lion Air ground staff was clearly negligent in failing to troubleshoot the attitude sensor issue after the prior incident.
>> Boeing was equally negligent in failing to incorporate the second ?stall recovery system? disconnect in its training program and flight manual.
>> Above all, there should be a single switch to disable all of the automatic flight control systems and restore the aircraft to manual control.
>>
>> Miles B. Anderson, K2CBY
>> 16 Round Pond Lane
>> Sag Harbor, New York 11963-3821
>> Phone: (631) 725-4400
>> FAX: (631) 725-2223
>> e-mail: k2cby at optimum.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Milsurplus mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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> Milsurplus mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/milsurplus
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net
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>
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