[Milsurplus] Brouhaha over Navy ROTHR radar

[Peter Gottlieb]

How your state regulates (or doesn't) electric rates is even more complex and 
OT.  All I can speak to is the generation side, which can be a surprisingly 
small portion of your bill.



On 3/30/2017 6:43 PM, George Babits wrote:
> Is that why my electric rate has doubled in the wind subsidies of the last 8 
> years?
>
> George
> W7HDL
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Gottlieb" <kb2vtl at gmail.com>
> To: "Kenneth G. Gordon" <kgordon2006 at frontier.com>
> Cc: <Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 4:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Brouhaha over Navy ROTHR radar
>
>
>> I work in that industry. Wind and solar are both economically wins even 
>> without any subsidies. Some companies actually don't even file for the 
>> subsidies as the paperwork is quite onerous. I make large battery systems 
>> which solve the intermittency problem and yes those are now economically 
>> feasible as well.  My batteries are made in 1 MW chunks and run 4-10 hours 
>> depending on how much electrolyte is used. Typical real systems are 4 to 35 
>> MW.  Investors buy the battery systems and sell the services to utilities and 
>> there is no subsidy from anyone. Ratepayers save money and both utilities and 
>> investors make their desired returns.
>>
>> As with all things electrical and electronic the price keeps decreasing and 
>> asymptotically approaches material costs.
>>
>> Yes the birds are a problem with some designs.
>>
>> Generating and distributing energy will always have an impact. Burn something 
>> and foul the air, wind turbines are noisy if close and the bird issues, 
>> nuclear has proven to be expensive to build and maintain. But we need the 
>> energy so have to work out the solutions!
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Kenneth G. Gordon <kgordon2006 at frontier.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30 Mar 2017 at 20:52, Hubert Miller wrote:
>>>>
>>>>    I wasn´t aware of this story and i don´t know how i missed it when it 
>>>> appeared in
>>>>    January of this year.
>>>>    Possible incompatibility of Navy "Relocatable Over the Horizon Radar" 
>>>> and new North
>>>>    Carolina wind farm being planned.
>>>>    Wind farm to be 14 miles away; with 50-story tall towers; some say this 
>>>> will interfere
>>>>    with Navy radar. Navy says "not so",
>>>>    conservatives say "it´s so"; opinion seems to divide mostly by political 
>>>> leanings.
>>>>    Apparently old specification for wind
>>>>    farm distance from ROTHR was 28 miles.
>>>>
>>>> http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7c8718e4a1244b9294e3db6c76933cda/navy-wind-farm- 
>>>>
>>>>    opposed-gop-lawmakers-wont-harm-radar
>>>
>>> My reading of that article seems to say that the Navy simply doesn't yet 
>>> know whether or not
>>> it would be a problem, but bowed to the environmentalists in the Obama camp.
>>>
>>> Be that as it may, and although I have forgotten where and when I read the 
>>> following in a long
>>> technical discussion I came upon long before the last election, wind farms 
>>> are NOT
>>> economically efficient. They cost far more to build and maintain than their 
>>> electricity is worth.
>>> ALL have been heavily subsidized.
>>>
>>> Then there is the HUGE problem of how to handle such horrendously variable 
>>> output as the
>>> wind varies from none to too much. Much of it has to be "dumped" at times, 
>>> despite the
>>> "buffering" if any, of their huge battery packs.
>>>
>>> Many wind generators are surrounded by piles of dead birds, too. I watched 
>>> one slice a
>>> bald-eagle out of the sky near here once. There is a good sized hill in 
>>> Whitman County
>>> Washington not too far from here which is covered with huge 3-bladed 
>>> monstrosities one can
>>> see for miles. Jacobs would be whirling over in his grave.
>>>
>>> And lastly, their visual impact is tremendous, and IMHO, all bad. They are 
>>> just plain ugly and
>>> too damned big.
>>>
>>> I don't mind solar as much....although someone had BETTER get a handle on 
>>> those cursed
>>> charge-controllers! The RFI most of those things generate is absolutely 
>>> amazing, and no one
>>> seems to be concerned about it other than the few hams being harrassed by them.
>>>
>>> Of course, then there was Solandra...
>>>
>>> Ken W7EKB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
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