[Milsurplus] Brouhaha over Navy ROTHR radar

[George Babits]

Is that why my electric rate has doubled in the wind subsidies of the last 8 
years?

George
W7HDL


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Gottlieb" <kb2vtl at gmail.com>
To: "Kenneth G. Gordon" <kgordon2006 at frontier.com>
Cc: <Milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2017 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Brouhaha over Navy ROTHR radar


>I work in that industry. Wind and solar are both economically wins even 
>without any subsidies. Some companies actually don't even file for the 
>subsidies as the paperwork is quite onerous. I make large battery systems 
>which solve the intermittency problem and yes those are now economically 
>feasible as well.  My batteries are made in 1 MW chunks and run 4-10 hours 
>depending on how much electrolyte is used. Typical real systems are 4 to 35 
>MW.  Investors buy the battery systems and sell the services to utilities 
>and there is no subsidy from anyone. Ratepayers save money and both 
>utilities and investors make their desired returns.
>
> As with all things electrical and electronic the price keeps decreasing 
> and asymptotically approaches material costs.
>
> Yes the birds are a problem with some designs.
>
> Generating and distributing energy will always have an impact. Burn 
> something and foul the air, wind turbines are noisy if close and the bird 
> issues, nuclear has proven to be expensive to build and maintain. But we 
> need the energy so have to work out the solutions!
>
>
> Peter
>
>> On Mar 30, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Kenneth G. Gordon <kgordon2006 at frontier.com> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 Mar 2017 at 20:52, Hubert Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>    I wasn´t aware of this story and i don´t know how i missed it when it 
>>> appeared in
>>>    January of this year.
>>>    Possible incompatibility of Navy "Relocatable Over the Horizon Radar" 
>>> and new North
>>>    Carolina wind farm being planned.
>>>    Wind farm to be 14 miles away; with 50-story tall towers; some say 
>>> this will interfere
>>>    with Navy radar. Navy says "not so",
>>>    conservatives say "it´s so"; opinion seems to divide mostly by 
>>> political leanings.
>>>    Apparently old specification for wind
>>>    farm distance from ROTHR was 28 miles.
>>> 
>>> http://bigstory.ap.org/article/7c8718e4a1244b9294e3db6c76933cda/navy-wind-farm-
>>>    opposed-gop-lawmakers-wont-harm-radar
>>
>> My reading of that article seems to say that the Navy simply doesn't yet 
>> know whether or not
>> it would be a problem, but bowed to the environmentalists in the Obama 
>> camp.
>>
>> Be that as it may, and although I have forgotten where and when I read 
>> the following in a long
>> technical discussion I came upon long before the last election, wind 
>> farms are NOT
>> economically efficient. They cost far more to build and maintain than 
>> their electricity is worth.
>> ALL have been heavily subsidized.
>>
>> Then there is the HUGE problem of how to handle such horrendously 
>> variable output as the
>> wind varies from none to too much. Much of it has to be "dumped" at 
>> times, despite the
>> "buffering" if any, of their huge battery packs.
>>
>> Many wind generators are surrounded by piles of dead birds, too. I 
>> watched one slice a
>> bald-eagle out of the sky near here once. There is a good sized hill in 
>> Whitman County
>> Washington not too far from here which is covered with huge 3-bladed 
>> monstrosities one can
>> see for miles. Jacobs would be whirling over in his grave.
>>
>> And lastly, their visual impact is tremendous, and IMHO, all bad. They 
>> are just plain ugly and
>> too damned big.
>>
>> I don't mind solar as much....although someone had BETTER get a handle on 
>> those cursed
>> charge-controllers! The RFI most of those things generate is absolutely 
>> amazing, and no one
>> seems to be concerned about it other than the few hams being harrassed by 
>> them.
>>
>> Of course, then there was Solandra...
>>
>> Ken W7EKB
>>
>>
>>
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