[Milsurplus] Research Help Requested

Mon Aug 28 10:18:59 EDT 2017

RobertFirst, I hope you and yours are safe and sound.  As I write, the TV news is showing the flooding in Houston and the TV newsmen are knee deep in water.  Why one would put themselves in danger just to illustrate how deep the floodwater is, is just silly.
That any vintage military radios are still around is because they were build in sufficient numbers, probably with the understanding that a high percentage would not be mission ready when they arrived at the destination or be lost outright.  I don't know what criterion was in place when the equipment order was placed so I assume that the reliability was factored in along with the expected losses of equipment due to fighting a war.  Ships sink, logistics get mismanaged and equipment needed in one location winds up in another.  The fog of war.
It is interesting to note that even today, nothing has essentially changed.  50% of the aircraft on active duty are not mission ready, probably the same for ships and tanks.  Individual equipment has gotten to be much more reliable but the combined systems are so complex that overall reliability seems to me to be unchanged.
The original question asked by Joe was why was no radio taken with the patrol.  My talk with Bill Mendez many years ago indicated that it wasn't worth the bother since, in his words, when the radio was needed, it didn't work.  Now it seems that hubris needs to be factored in.  No radio, no BAR, no hand grenades; the fog of war.Regards,Jim

      From: "WA5CAB at cs.com" <WA5CAB at cs.com>
 To: antqradio at sbcglobal.net 
 Sent: Monday, August 28, 2017 2:39 AM
 Subject: Re: [Milsurplus] Research Help Requested

Jim,

And yet 60 to 90 years on, radios from that period are still around and can still be used today while many or most built since about 1990 can't be maintained longer than 10 or 15 years because you can't get parts or people capable of fixing them.  The same tends to be true of even high end motor vehicles.  In 2013, I needed to either rebuild or replace the engine in my 1996 Land Rover and discovered that getting parts, someone to do the work (because I no longer cared to) or a replacement engine wasn't practical.  But if I had still had any of the four 1960's vintage petrol or diesel models that I once owned (mostly over the same 25 year period), it wouldn't have been any problem..

Joe,

I have no proof that either one was actually used but the two portable radios that the Marines could have had on Guadalcanal were the HF MAB (or more likely any of its 2-letter predecessors) or the VHF TBY.

Robert Downs - Houston
wa5cab dot com (Web Store)
MVPA 9480

In a message dated 08/27/2017 11:31:38 AM Central Daylight Time, antqradio at sbcglobal.net writes: 

Joe
 I once worked with a mechanical engineer who spent most of WW2 on reconnaissance patrols in the ETO.  He mentioned to me, on many occasions, that he spent more time behind German lines then in front of them.  These patrols lasted for several weeks at a time.  Their purpose was to gauge troop movements and concentrations.  Bill said that at times he was so close to the enemy that he could reach out and touch them as they passed by on the road.  Food and ammunition was the majority of what was taken with them.  They wore the same clothes for the duration of the patrol.  When they got back to their unit, they burnt their old clothes, showered and then were issued new uniforms.  

I asked him which radios were also taken on these patrols.  He laughed and said that the reliability of the radios was so poor, that when you needed to use it, it wouldn't work.   Things seemed to be so bad that before most radio equipment could be issued to the troops, it had to be repaired as soon as it was taken out of the crate!  This is backed up by several post WW2 studies on electronic equipment reliability.  One that mentions this can be found here: https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/76283/AIAA-1966-2598-214.pdf;sequence=1  
 This paper seems to have been written in the early 1960's and concentrates on commercial equipment but much was written on this subject just after WW2 and during the Korean Conflict.

I have a copy of a book, the title escapes me now but it echoes what is contained above.  When I get the chance, I'll look for it and send along the title.  I believe it can also be found as a pdf on line.

Jim

From: Joe Connor via Milsurplus <milsurplus at mailman.qth.net>
To: Milsurplus <milsurplus at qth.net> 
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2017 9:34 AM
Subject: [Milsurplus] Research Help Requested

Guys, I need some help on a research project I'm doing on the Goettge patrol, a 25-man Marine patrol that was slaughtered on Guadalcanal on August 12-13, 1942.

One curious and unexplained issue is why the patrol did not bring a radio with them. Because of that, when they needed help, they had to send a guy to swim back to the Marine perimeter, about four miles away.

Can you think of any reason why they wouldn't bring a transmitter/receiver? Size? Weight? Bulk? Lack of availability in the shoestring days of the Guadalcanal campaign? This was before the advent of the BC-611 walkie-talkies, right? In August 1942, what type of small transmitters/receivers (if any) would have been available to a 25-man Marine patrol on Guadalcanal?

As always, thank you for your help.

                        Joe Connor

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