[MilCom] DOD, NGA Revise Their FLIP Decision??

Wed Dec 7 12:35:47 EST 2005

The reversal is for some selected charts and NOT the FLIP Supplements that 
have the comm info. That is going away, no more.

Larry

Larry Van Horn, N5FPW
MT Milcom/Help Desk Columnist
Assistant Editor Monitoring Times

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Francesco Ledda" <frledda at verizon.net>
To: "Larry Van Horn, N5FPW" <n5fpw at brmemc.net>; "Jason R" 
<jason_esva at yahoo.com>; <milcom at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: [MilCom] DOD, NGA Revise Their FLIP Decision??

>
> http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2005/051129dod.html
>
>
>
> DOD changes course - most popular FLIP nav products will still be 
> available
> to U.S. pilots
>
> Rarely does the Department of Defense do an about-face, but AOPA efforts
> have led to just that. The National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA)
> announced Tuesday that it will continue for an additional two years to
> provide U.S. pilots with DOD aviation navigation charts and products for 
> the
> United States, Caribbean, South America, the Pacific, Australia, and
> Antarctica that are considered part of the U.S. flight information region.
> Then it's in the hands of the FAA.
>
> "We know that many of our members depend upon these charts for their 
> flights
> outside of the United States," said AOPA President Phil Boyer. "This is a
> huge turn-around. When we first met with NGA officials in their St. Louis
> headquarters, they were absolutely adamant that they were going to 
> withdraw
> all of their navigation products from public sale this year."
>
> The NGA announced last year that it was going to stop public distribution 
> of
> its popular flight information publications (FLIP), including operational
> navigation charts (ONC) and international instrument approach procedures.
> Many AOPA members used these products for their flights to Latin America 
> and
> the Caribbean. Also included was the digital aeronautical flight 
> information
> file (DAFIF), which many flight-plan vendors use as their navigation data
> source.
>
> AOPA vehemently objected. The NGA acknowledged that AOPA had legitimate
> concerns about civilian use of the products and agreed to work with the
> association to meet the needs of the general aviation community.
>
> The NGA said Tuesday that its products for the rest of the world will be
> phased out of public distribution over the next 22 months. The DAFIF will 
> be
> removed from the Internet by October 2006. However, NGA will provide the
> DAFIF and all other navigation data to the FAA indefinitely.
>
> The Department of Defense mapping agency will continue to sell its
> Caribbean, Latin America, and Pacific area charts to the U.S. public for 
> the
> next two years. (But overseas sales will stop in October 2006.)
>
> "After that, it's up to the FAA to continue publication," said Boyer. "We
> expect the agency to start transition planning now, and we'll stay on top 
> of
> them to make sure they do.
>
> "We're very pleased that the Department of Defense has recognized the
> importance of general aviation, and the value of these navigation products
> to the GA pilots," Boyer said.
>
> NGA had originally proposed withdrawing all of the products because of
> complaints from copyright holders in other countries, many of whom also 
> sell
> navigation charts. Some of these navigation chart publishers were
> threatening to cut off the DOD's access to their information. Withdrawing
> products covering Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and Africa "will assure 
> the
> continued availability [to the Department of Defense] of information vital
> to national security," said NGA Director Lt. Gen. James R. Clapper, Jr.,
> USAF (Ret).
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: milcom-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:milcom-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Larry Van Horn,
> N5FPW
> Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 7:24 AM
> To: Jason R; milcom at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [MilCom] DOD, NGA Revise Their FLIP Decision??
>
>
>>Re: [MilCom] DOD, NGA Revise Their FLIP Decision??
>
> Nope, they have not reversed their decision on the FLIP publications. They
> are going the way of the of the ball and musket, all their pubs and charts
> will be gone from their site by October 2007. I talked at length with the
> folks at NGA late last week in an exclusive interview for Monitoring Times
> (my Milcom column) and it boils down to information copyrights.
>
> Foreign governments consider their material copyrighted and they sell 
> their
> material to their nationals and others. DoD was getting it for free and 
> thus
> its distribution was costing the originators money. So in order for DoD to
> continue to get the information they need for the military services, they
> are withdrawing everything and turing over public sales entirely to the 
> FAA
> NACO offices.
>
> I was told that the FAA will have US, Carib, LA, and Pac material for sale
> through NACO (National Aeronautical Charting Office)
> http://www.naco.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/index. The public replacement 
> for
> the DoD FLIPS will be the existing US Airport/Facility Directories (seven 
> in
> all).
>
> It has been years since I last saw a FAA Airport/Facility Directory. The
> people I talked to did not know if UHF freq info is part of that package,
> and honestly I just don't remember.  If any of you use one of the FAA
> Airport/Facility pubs, I would appreciate a post here if it does have UHF
> and military aerodromes in it. My local airport does not have this FAA 
> pub,
> we are just to small for them to carry those pubs.
>
> Bottom line, nothing we do here is going to change this decision. Their
> decision is final and binding. So another government resource that you and 
> I
> pay for as taxpayers is gone forever. This slippery slope started with the
> withdraw of the NTIA GMF in 1984 by Executive Order and now the final
> remaining military/governemt freq database in the public domain, the 
> FLIPS,
> will be gone by 2007. Sad indeed. Guess I will have to go back to 
> listening
> to baby monitors and McDonald kiosks. MT will have to replace Milcom with
> the new Babycom or Foodcom columns!!!   ;-)))
>
> So now you know the rest of the story. Of course, I will have more on this
> and other neat things in MT's Milcom column. In the Feb issue, we have an
> exclusive look and new background information on the new 380-399.9 LMR 
> band
> and in the March issue, my annual Airshow column blowout (skeds, freqs and
> equipment).
>
> Have fun out there and good hunting all,
>
> Larry Van Horn, N5FPW
> MT Milcom/Help Desk Columnist
> Assistant Editor Monitoring Times
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason R" <jason_esva at yahoo.com>
> To: <milcom at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 6:31 PM
> Subject: [MilCom] DOD, NGA Revise Their FLIP Decision??
>
>
>> Milcom Members
>>
>> I saw this on the FREQ of NATURE scanner
>> website not sure if this has to do
>> with the info we use on this group?
>>
>> http://www.freqofnature.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Aero news
>>
> http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=67472717-210c-4f71-9c01-32
> 5d0b2823ae&Dynamic=1&Range=WEEK&FromDate=11%2F29%2F2005&To
>> Date=12%2F06%2F2005&Category=%2Findex.cfm
>>
>>
>> Jason R
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________
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>>
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>
>
>
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