[MarinTeams] Channel 7 Repeater power outage restored
Marjorie Schwier
marjorieschwier at icloud.com
Sat Jan 14 18:03:01 EST 2023
Hi, George. Of course I remember you and the contributions you made to HWA in the past. I am glad to see the interest in the future of HWA expressed by so many of the members via marinteams. It is due to Bill’s work over the years to continue to support licensing and preparation of amateur radio operators to provide service to their communities in the event of a disaster that Hamilton Wireless Association has been able to continue. At 95, the technology is over my head, but I appreciate the interest in supporting Bill and the purpose of HWA.
Marjorie KI6YKY
> On Jan 14, 2023, at 12:47 PM, Bill <wbs at hbco2.com> wrote:
>
> Marjorie (and all),
>
> Rest assured that Marin Teams is still prioritized for Neighbors in Neighborhoods where member privacy is of highest priority. Our membership list remains closely guarded. It has not, and will not be disclosed.
>
> The San Francisco Radio club has gained national publicity through the ARRL for its use with SLACK, and it seems reasonable to explore what HWA can do to expand interest and participation in our club. But nothing has changed, and there aren't any changes planned. Any proposed changes will be fully described (and debated, and likely voted) before they are seriously considered.
>
> Any additional use of the Internet regarding associate intercommunications will likely be a "bolt-on" new feature with invitation on the part of club associates to participate (or not).
>
> Cost is certainly a factor. If readers of this newsgroup value the club, please consider joining as an associate. Yearly dues are $25, details can be found on our website, www.k6bw.org. And if you are aware of a place where we can meet on a regular basis, please let me know.
>
> 73 de Bill, AB6MT
> info at k6bw.org
> 415-485-3815
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marinteams-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:marinteams-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Marjorie Schwier via MarinTeams
> Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2023 10:05 AM
> To: Mark Vlcek
> Cc: marinteams
> Subject: Re: [MarinTeams] Channel 7 Repeater power outage restored
>
> Bill, I am a little confused by the stream of comments. marinteams has been working very well for many years, for reference-this recent stream of communication among members. I don’t know if the cost is comparative to the other options mentioned in the communications. There is no source of revenue for the upkeep of Hamilton Wireless Association except for contributions, so cost is critical to any decision about the communications system.
>
> Marjorie KI6YKY
>
>
>> On Jan 14, 2023, at 12:09 AM, Mark Vlcek <markvlcek at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Slack and Discord are definitely some of the more popular ways that
>> businesses, organizations, and groups of friends stay in touch as of late.
>> Both have free options, though Slack's is a bit more restrictive (only 90
>> days of history before messages are deleted). For more info:
>> https://slack.com/pricing.
>>
>> Another popular option for groups to communicate is Signal (
>> https://www.signal.org/). This is simply a messenger app (mobile or
>> desktop), so there's no concept of channels, pinning messages, bots,
>> moderators, etc. but it's free, privacy-minded, secure, and easy to use.
>>
>> Groups.io seems like an improvement over qth.net, but by nature of it being
>> largely reliant on email, I don't see it being something that will
>> necessarily garner more engagement than this current mailer. My email inbox
>> is constantly overflowing and I imagine I'm not the only one in that
>> situation.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 13, 2023 at 8:37 AM Joshoa Alex <joshoa.alex at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> I would say that pretty much ANY collaboration service available on the
>>> market now will have similar EULA (End User License Agreement)
>>>
>>> That is their way of monetizing 'free' accounts
>>>
>>> I am a big fan of 'self-hosted' solutions, since we will be the only one
>>> who will be in control of it
>>>
>>> BUT
>>>
>>> It will require maintenance and support from someone experienced enough
>>> of it which will create dependency of this person
>>>
>>> Let`s first decide which way to go: Self-hosted or Third-party operated
>>>
>>> And then pick up the right solution within this area
>>>
>>>
>>> PS
>>>
>>> Out of Self-hosted list, only one 'king of the hill' in my mind would be
>>> XMPP (Jabber) compatible solution
>>>
>>> This is an industry standard, has a lot of servers and a lot of
>>> compatible clients for pretty much all platforms
>>>
>>> I once hosted one and it was working really well
>>>
>>> The only disadvantage I recall is PUSH - mechanism that wake the phone
>>> on receiving message
>>>
>>> Without this one, you will have to open app on a phone to check for any
>>> new messages
>>>
>>> It was hard to configure but it was operational eventually
>>>
>>> (All above is applicable only for Apple and Androids)
>>>
>>>
>>> J
>>>
>>> On 1/12/2023 1:57 PM, Mike Mc Nevin wrote:
>>>> Groups.io: Plans & Pricing <https://groups.io/static/pricing>
>>>>
>>>> Groups.io: Email Groups, Supercharged <https://groups.io/>
>>>>
>>>> what about using this? I'm on a bunch of groups using this and I don't
>>>> think any pay a fee.
>>>> Mike
>>>> ny6g
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Michael McNevin | GM*
>>>> Border Stores | Diplomat-Military | Ship Chandler
>>>> (619) 327-4777 x105 | (52) 664-231-7770
>>>> San Diego | Long Beach | HOU | OAK| BAL| NY
>>>> www.sandidutyfree.com <http://www.sandidutyfree.com>
>>>> <http://www.sandidutyfree.com/> <http://www.sdfvip.com>
>>>> <http://www.sandidutyfree.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---- On Thu, 12 Jan 2023 13:53:08 -0800 *Luke Teyssier
>>>> <luke at teyssier.com>* wrote ---
>>>>
>>>> I’m OK with that. I’m also willing to Kickin you know $100 a year or
>>>> whatever if slack is a better solution for us
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jan 11, 2023 at 1:37 PM Joshoa Alex
>>>> <joshoa.alex at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you guys think of Discord for communication between club
>>>> members?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://discord.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> Has clients for Windows, Mac and mobiles
>>>>>
>>>>> We can create our own "server" there, multiple chat-rooms inside,
>>>>> different user`s roles like Admin, contributor, read-only etc
>>>>>
>>>>> Very alike Slack, but does not require premium subscription for all
>>>>> those features
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oleg
>>>>>
>>>>> KN6KJS
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 1/10/2023 11:41 PM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First of all let me express my gratitude for your interest in
>>>> building
>>>>> up and sustaining the K6BW repeater system! Unfortunately there
>>>> isn’t a
>>>>> cost-free solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Richard, thank you for establishing the turn-on date for the
>>>> West Marin
>>>>> repeater (November, 2016). I think you submitted a picture, but our
>>>>> present email newsgroup server allows text messages only. I have
>>>> been
>>>>> watching the use of Slack by San Francisco Radio Club and looked
>>>> into its
>>>>> use for our club, but ran into an expensive subscription plan,
>>>> per month,
>>>>> per user. I see that Richard Dillman may be using Slack in West
>>>> Marin and
>>>>> wonder how the two clubs are able to use Slack, presumably at a
>>>> cost that
>>>>> we can compare to our present free service. If anyone knows, or
>>>> knows of a
>>>>> newsgroup (other than Facebook or Google) that might encourage
>>>> better
>>>>> discourse among members, please let me know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On to comments regarding emergency power. In spite of the
>>>> drama stirred
>>>>> up by the local news, our present storm system has been IHMO fairly
>>>>> benign. There hasn’t been much damage in marin (e.g. fallen trees,
>>>>> landslides. etc.), only minimal flooding, and after many years
>>>> of draught
>>>>> we are finally filling up our reservoirs. The water table is
>>>> still in need
>>>>> of further replenishment. There has been only one power outage
>>>> at San
>>>>> Pedro and the two other repeaters haven’t lost utility power
>>>> even though
>>>>> they are in need of radio maintenance. Yes, there has been quite
>>>> a spell
>>>>> of rain in January and can be considered a shot over the bow,
>>>> e.g. we may
>>>>> not be as lucky in the future.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Concentrating on San Pedro, my thoughts are we ultimately need
>>>> some sort
>>>>> of solar power generation if we intend to harden the site. We have
>>> a
>>>>> gasoline generator there, but it can only run for something like
>>>> 18 hours
>>>>> continuously. Also, it is fully manual, has to be pull-started
>>>> and we
>>>>> would have to power the radio equipment with extension cords.
>>>> There aren’t
>>>>> any gas cans to replenish gasoline, either. Still, it is a
>>>> little better
>>>>> than nothing. We have access to 12V, 7-1/2A sealed lead-acid
>>>> batteries and
>>>>> have some 15-20 charged in reserve at San Pedro. But there isn’t
>>>> any way
>>>>> at present to hook them together or to connect equipment. At the
>>>> West
>>>>> Marin site, which is fully solar powered, we have a charge
>>>> controller to
>>>>> maintain battery charge and limiters for both over voltage and
>>>> low-voltage
>>>>> cut off to prevent battery damage from excessive discharge. A
>>>> lot has
>>>>> happened in the last 8 years with solar technology, much of
>>>> which I am not
>>>>> familiar, but the basic model of considering charging resources vs
>>>>> discharge (power demand) is as far as I know the same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the very minimum, I suppose we could consider a battery
>>>> system with a
>>>>> charge controller (they now have the limiters built-in), where
>>>> we could
>>>>> specify, say 2 weeks, of repeater operation and rely on a gasoline
>>>>> generator to recharge the batteries. That was the basis of our
>>>> solar power
>>>>> assembly at West Marin. We tallied the (continuous) receiver
>>>> power needed
>>>>> and added an estimated a number of hours of active transmitter
>>>> operation.
>>>>> That was multiplied by 14 days to arrive at total demand. In
>>>> West Marin,
>>>>> there is quite a bit of fog and cloud cover from proximity to
>>>> the ocean.
>>>>> That, battery charge efficiency, battery life, available power
>>>> from the
>>>>> sun, and a number of additional de-rating factors were added
>>>> together to
>>>>> determine the ability of the solar panels to charge the
>>>> batteries. In the
>>>>> case of San Pedro, we also are supporting the AREDN broadband
>>>> network. We
>>>>> have 7 dishes and two routers at present, and expect that
>>>> complement to
>>>>> grow. The dishes don’t take a lot of power, but the demand is
>>>> continuous
>>>>> and adds up quickly. At any rate, all of this can be listed in a
>>>>> spreadsheet and become a design model that will indicate the
>>>> needed battery
>>>>> capacity, and the solar charge current and become a basis to
>>>> measure how
>>>>> the system will perform and for how long. Unfortunately, we have
>>>> very
>>>>> limited access to our example West Marin repeater and have not
>>>> been able to
>>>>> compare the design model with actual use. Suffice to say, the
>>>> repeater has
>>>>> been humming along for the last 6 years without issue. Perhaps,
>>>> thankfully
>>>>> it has not had a lot of use as with all the de-rating, the 4
>>>> 250AH AGM
>>>>> batteries are barely sufficient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A kill-o-watt monitor might be a good starting point at San
>>> Pedro,
>>>>> although repeater use has been practically only that of the ½
>>>> hour Monday
>>>>> night net. It wouldn’t hurt to update the spreadsheet developed
>>>> for West
>>>>> Marin to incorporate the AREDN network and arrive at a base line to
>>>>> estimate battery reserve. There is also an emergency lighting
>>>> circuit at
>>>>> San Pedro that we should consider updating. It presently uses 36
>>>> volt (!)
>>>>> incandescent bulbs which could be switched to something like
>>>> +12V LED bulbs
>>>>> (or what is commonly available for boat lighting). Also, there
>>>> is a HF
>>>>> station with room for good antennas outdoors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you are interested in the project, perhaps the first thing
>>>> to do is
>>>>> haul out the checkbook and send the club your $25 associate
>>>> membership
>>>>> dues. Or more! There is a lot of possibility at the site, and we
>>>> need
>>>>> your help, both physical and monetary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And we are still hunting around for a club meeting place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73 de Bill, AB6MT
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Harlen [mailto:hmallis at comcast.net]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2023 8:56 PM
>>>>>> To: George Shea
>>>>>> Cc: Bill; marinteams at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MarinTeams] Channel 7 Repeater power outage
>>> restored
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill probably knows or if not, we can put a kill a watt on
>>>> there and see
>>>>> what it uses over 24 hours or even a week if usage is not
>>> consistent
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Out
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2023, at 7:21 PM, George Shea
>>>> <geoirishbox at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this time, in order to analyze the issue would be to
>>>> determine how
>>>>> many amp hours are needed to keep the repeaters going given the
>>>> kinds of
>>>>> transmission outages likely to occur. How many amps does the
>>> current
>>>>> repeater draw? In use or in standbye? Then, a decision for a
>>>>> generator/inverter that is either autostart or internet start
>>>> might be
>>>>> considered is the money is there. Solar is also being used quite
>>>> well. Show
>>>>> me the money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Otherwise, end of discussion buy new batteries, I hope lithium.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am replacing my "house" batteries on my sailboat with
>>>> lithium bought
>>>>> through home depot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> George J. Shea
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 415-999-9358
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 05:43:29 PM PST, Harlen <
>>>>> hmallis at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Charging would be done either through a generator auto start,
>>>> which they
>>>>> do make.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or a C, which is the problem as it goes out then what?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s nice having multiple systems so you have a little bit
>>>> more of a
>>>>> failsafe set up
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question, depends on how important the scenario is so you know
>>>> how much
>>>>> money to throw at the solution
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2023, at 4:32 PM, George Shea
>>>> <geoirishbox at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LFPs are lighter, they deep cycle, most have internal
>>>> controllers to
>>>>> avoid over/under charging, can get at least 4,000 recycles, NO
>>>> MAINTENANCE,
>>>>> still work fine way past the 50% discharge limitation all other
>>>> batteries
>>>>> etc. A little expensive, but getting cheaper, especially if
>>>> stored inside.
>>>>> Maintenance free other than charging, and easily convert to
>>>> solar when
>>>>> available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suggest solar unneeded if reliable source of power to
>>>> charger keeping
>>>>> batteries topped up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> George J. Shea
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 04:13:39 PM PST, Harlen <
>>>>> hmallis at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Agreed and there’s some maintenance on them too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At this point other than the expense, LFP batteries are so
>>>> much better
>>>>> of a long-term solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2023, at 3:48 PM, George Shea
>>>> <geoirishbox at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AGMS that are recycled many times (as in solar installations)
>>>> easily die
>>>>> after four years especially in cold weather.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> George J. Shea
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 10:17:24 AM PST, Bill
>>>> <wbs at hbco2.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We have four AGM batteries at the site in West Marin. It has
>>>> been solar
>>>>> powered from the beginning and has been running uninterrupted
>>>> for 4 years,
>>>>> I believe. Will have to check, can't count that high..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Harlen [mailto:hmallis at comcast.net]
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2023 9:57 AM
>>>>>> To: wbs at hbco2.com
>>>>>> Cc: marinteams at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MarinTeams] Channel 7 Repeater power outage
>>> restored
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That’s tough with all the gray weather we’ve had two you’re
>>>> talking
>>>>> about a lot of batteries. It’s the storage that makes all the
>>>> systems work.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2023, at 9:50 AM, Bill <wbs at hbco2.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Power is back on at San Pedro. All of Santa Venetia was
>>>> knocked out
>>>>> during
>>>>>>> last night's storm, but apparently has been restored.
>>>>>>> Would be nice to have solar backup!
>>>>>>> 73 de Bill, AB6MT
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> MarinTeams mailing list
>>>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/marinteams
>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>>>>> Post: mailto:MarinTeams at mailman.qth.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>>>> Please help support this email list:
>>>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> MarinTeams mailing list
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>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>> MarinTeams mailing list
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>>>>>>
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>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> MarinTeams mailing list
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>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>>>>
>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>>> Please help support this email list:
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>>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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>
> ______________________________________________________________
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