[Lowfer] #18 wire

riese-k3djc at juno.com riese-k3djc at juno.com
Wed Dec 7 21:21:32 EST 2011



Hi Bill

what are you using to measure the cap
if I read you correct you are going to a 
counterpose system as opposed to a set of ground
radials,,, I just built an HF ground plane for 40 on up and
used 12 or so radials er counterpose and the antenna
really works well,, the wires arent tuned to a length but still 
provide good return for RF,, mounted at about 15 ft. at night really
comes alive

Bob K3DJC



On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:07:30 -0500 Bill Ashlock <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
writes:
> 
> Here's an update Rick:
> 
> I completed the lower "Y" this morning on my new vertical antenna. 
> (IE: that illegal counterpoise :) BTW, at least on may first design, 
> there would be no hope of getting out a signal worth a nickel if I 
> didn't use a counterpoise electrically isolated from the earth... no 
> matter how many ground rods I pounded into the ground. The lowest 
> Rac I could get in this design using typical grounding techniques 
> was something like 500 ohms!!! Once I complete the antenna I will 
> run some more tests to determine the 
> ground conductivity and the Rac without the counterpoise. Removing 
> all 
> the trees from this area has caused the ground to be fairly wet so 
> this 
> may have a positive effect on the ground conductivity.
> 
> The capacity tests today gave the following readings:
> 
> 1. Capacity between upper and lower "Ys" separated 50ft = 150pf
> 
> 2. Capacity between upper "Y" and a pipe driven into the ground = 
> 320pf
> 
> The really good news is that I discovered that my nearest Home Depot 
> actually does have the #18 chandelier wire in 500ft spools so I will 
> install the fill-in wires and re-measure the capacities ASAP. Guess 
> I'd better get a transmitter, exciter, and lead-in wires ready to go 
> as well.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Bill
> 
> > From: ashlockw at hotmail.com
> > To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 20:10:23 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > 
> > 
> > Rick,
> > 
> > I have my upper and lower "Ys" in place and tomorrow I hope to 
> make my first capacity measurement. Then I will need that #18 wire 
> in order to continue the effort. 
> > 
> > I'll have to check in my archives in order to reactivate my memory 
> of what we talked about relative to a ground screen below a loop. My 
> current sense of this is that they have no effect if only as large a 
> the base of the loop. They don't appear to lower the Rac, at least 
> with my two types of soil. 
> > 
> > Your 1.38 ohms seem to be higher than it should be. I forgot to 
> ask if you checked the accuracy of your current probe to see if 
> something there may have changed.
> > 
> > Bill
> > 
> > > From: smokinggun at verizon.net
> > > To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:23:05 +0000
> > > Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi Bill,
> > >  Well it was nice of the logging company to hook you up like 
> that. I cant 
> > > wait to hear it. Sounds like lots of wire !
> > >  I have the same mountain conditions here in the Poconos; all 
> rock and clay.
> > >  I wonder if you still planned on testing a loop with a ground 
> screen like 
> > > we were discussing a while ago ?
> > > 
> > >  As far as my loop goes; the Rac went up from 1.18 on Friday to 
> 1.38 
> > > Saturday ; the day after I elevated the lower leg and trimmed 
> the trees. I 
> > > dont expect anything went bad in the TX in that time.It would  
> be quite a 
> > > coincidence. It wasnt a drastic change but I just expected it to 
> go down not 
> > > up.O h well, maybe my measurements were off before I trimmed but 
> I rechecked 
> > > the loop current a few times after trimming and again 2 days ago 
> and all the 
> > > readings are the same.
> > >  Good luck with the new antenna raising !
> > > 
> > >          Rick   "PBO"
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Bill Ashlock" <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 2:01 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > Hi Rick,
> > > >
> > > > Yah, a bit of a shift in loyalty from TX loops to a vertical 
> (although not 
> > > > quite a traditional form of a vertical). The open area just 
> cleared out by 
> > > > loggers crys out for a vertical and should give a good A/B 
> comparison of 
> > > > the performance of these two antennas. They left a huge birch 
> tree in the 
> > > > center of this area and it is about 120ft from the closest 
> tree on my 
> > > > property. The plan is to run one rope support end of the "Y" 
> over the top 
> > > > of this tree and run the other two rope supports to the tops 
> of two trees 
> > > > on my land forming a 120 deg angle  between each rope. The Y 
> itself will 
> > > > be composed of #12 stranded house wire. A counterpoise with a 
> 
> > > > geometrically matching "Y" will be 50ft below this. I will be 
> filling in 
> > > > the "Ys" with smaller gauge wire in order to increase the 
> capacity between 
> > > > them as much as possible consistent with low cost and low 
> weight. The apex 
> > > > of the "Ys" of course will be connected to the vertical 
> element and the 
> > > > loading coil will be hanging in the approx ce
> > > > nter of this. The whole antenna will be floating relative to 
> ground 
> > > > because of the very poor ground conductivity up here. This 
> pretty much 
> > > > described my first vertical on site (5 years ago) except it 
> was an "X" 
> > > > antenna instead of a "Y" and was located in the center of my 
> 200ft wide 
> > > > lot. The performance of this antenna was quite good (Rac in 
> the order of 
> > > > 10 ohms) but I had to remove it soon after its installation to 
> make room 
> > > > for my house. So far I have installed the ropes over the tops 
> of two trees 
> > > > and should be able to complete the third tomorrow. (BTW I'm 
> still doing 
> > > > pretty good with the compound bow - now batting 1000 :)  
> Luckily the 
> > > > weather has been good for this project.
> > > >
> > > > About your loop: What you did shouldn't have raised the Rac. 
> Must be 
> > > > something very subtle. Are the two lower legs touching 
> anything other than 
> > > > insulators? That's the most sensitive area. Recheck the Xmter 
> on the bench 
> > > > and also check the resonating caps if nothing else looks out 
> of place.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >> From: smokinggun at verizon.net
> > > >> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 04:38:17 +0000
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >>
> > > >> Wow Bill; I want to see what that looks like and how it 
> performs ! Its a
> > > >> horizontal "Y" ? I guess your feeding it where the 3 legs of 
> the "Y" 
> > > >> meet?
> > > >> Do tell!
> > > >>
> > > >>  BTW : My loop is doing ok.I trimmed some trees and moved the 
> feed point
> > > >> from the corner to the center of the loop( shouldnt change 
> performance)
> > > >> .That night I was copied by Andy and Doug down in TN ; almost 
> 500 miles! 
> > > >> Not
> > > >> bad for a new guy ! For some reason though by trimming the 
> trees away and
> > > >> raising the lower leg from 4 ft up to 8 ft  and moving the 
> feedpoint ; my
> > > >> Rac went up ?I was expecting the opposite but what do I 
> know.
> > > >>  Keep us informed on your "Y " experiment .Im real curious.
> > > >>
> > > >>    73
> > > >>        Rick  KA2PBO
> > > >>         "PBO"  187.2Khz  "or so"     qrss60
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >> From: "Bill Ashlock" <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
> > > >> To: <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 4:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks Warren. I'll have to stop in on my next trip south 
> and/or give 
> > > >> > them
> > > >> > a call. This is for the antenna design that uses a tall 
> tree 120ft off 
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > the side of my land. This was originally planned to be an 
> "H" antenna
> > > >> > (rotated 90deg) but I found the capacity between top and 
> bottom 
> > > >> > sections
> > > >> > to be only about 100pf and not much more with caged 
> conductors. A "Y"
> > > >> > design (looking down from the top) on the other hand has a 
> capacity of
> > > >> > almost 400pf if the "Y" is filled-in with a spider web of 
> smaller ga 
> > > >> > wire.
> > > >> > I can use two trees on my land to form the "Y". (This is a 
> Lowfer 
> > > >> > antenna,
> > > >> > BTW, fitting inside a 50' x 50' cylinder)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Bill
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> From: k2ors at verizon.net
> > > >> >> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >> >> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 22:30:33 -0500
> > > >> >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Bill,
> > > >> >>    Electronic Surplus Sales in Candia, NH has wire on 
> spools at scrap
> > > >> >> prices. Selection varies from day to day, so it might pay 
> to check 
> > > >> >> with
> > > >> >> them
> > > >> >> first.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> 73 Warren
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >> >> From: "Bill Ashlock" <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
> > > >> >> To: <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> > > >> >> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 10:06 PM
> > > >> >> Subject: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Does anyone know of a cheep source for #18 bare stranded 
> wire? Need
> > > >> >> > about
> > > >> >> > 500ft for a new Lowfer antenna design.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Used to buy so-called 'chandelier wire' at $12 for a 
> 500ft spool at
> > > >> >> > Home
> > > >> >> > Depot but now I'm seeing astronomical prices.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Bill
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > 
> ______________________________________________________________
> > > >> >> > Lowfer mailing list
> > > >> >> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > > >> >> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > >> >> > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > >> >> > Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> > > >> >> Lowfer mailing list
> > > >> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > > >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > >> >> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > >> >> Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 
> ______________________________________________________________
> > > >> > Lowfer mailing list
> > > >> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > > >> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > >> > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > >> > Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -----
> > > >> > No virus found in this message.
> > > >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > >> > Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4652 - Release 
> Date: 
> > > >> > 12/02/11
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >> 
> ______________________________________________________________
> > > >> Lowfer mailing list
> > > >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > > >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > >> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >>
> > > >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > >> Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > >
> > > > 
> ______________________________________________________________
> > > > Lowfer mailing list
> > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >
> > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > > Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > No virus found in this message.
> > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > > > Version: 2012.0.1873 / Virus Database: 2102/4654 - Release 
> Date: 12/03/11
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Lowfer mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > 
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >                                                
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Lowfer mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > 
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: 
> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>                                                
> ______________________________________________________________
> Lowfer mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/lowfer
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> 
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> 
> 
____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ee01f85d3feb9b1f1m03vuc


More information about the Lowfer mailing list