[Lowfer] #18 wire
riese-k3djc at juno.com
riese-k3djc at juno.com
Wed Dec 7 21:21:32 EST 2011
Hi Bill
what are you using to measure the cap
if I read you correct you are going to a
counterpose system as opposed to a set of ground
radials,,, I just built an HF ground plane for 40 on up and
used 12 or so radials er counterpose and the antenna
really works well,, the wires arent tuned to a length but still
provide good return for RF,, mounted at about 15 ft. at night really
comes alive
Bob K3DJC
On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:07:30 -0500 Bill Ashlock <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
writes:
>
> Here's an update Rick:
>
> I completed the lower "Y" this morning on my new vertical antenna.
> (IE: that illegal counterpoise :) BTW, at least on may first design,
> there would be no hope of getting out a signal worth a nickel if I
> didn't use a counterpoise electrically isolated from the earth... no
> matter how many ground rods I pounded into the ground. The lowest
> Rac I could get in this design using typical grounding techniques
> was something like 500 ohms!!! Once I complete the antenna I will
> run some more tests to determine the
> ground conductivity and the Rac without the counterpoise. Removing
> all
> the trees from this area has caused the ground to be fairly wet so
> this
> may have a positive effect on the ground conductivity.
>
> The capacity tests today gave the following readings:
>
> 1. Capacity between upper and lower "Ys" separated 50ft = 150pf
>
> 2. Capacity between upper "Y" and a pipe driven into the ground =
> 320pf
>
> The really good news is that I discovered that my nearest Home Depot
> actually does have the #18 chandelier wire in 500ft spools so I will
> install the fill-in wires and re-measure the capacities ASAP. Guess
> I'd better get a transmitter, exciter, and lead-in wires ready to go
> as well.
>
> Later...
>
> Bill
>
> > From: ashlockw at hotmail.com
> > To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 20:10:23 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> >
> >
> > Rick,
> >
> > I have my upper and lower "Ys" in place and tomorrow I hope to
> make my first capacity measurement. Then I will need that #18 wire
> in order to continue the effort.
> >
> > I'll have to check in my archives in order to reactivate my memory
> of what we talked about relative to a ground screen below a loop. My
> current sense of this is that they have no effect if only as large a
> the base of the loop. They don't appear to lower the Rac, at least
> with my two types of soil.
> >
> > Your 1.38 ohms seem to be higher than it should be. I forgot to
> ask if you checked the accuracy of your current probe to see if
> something there may have changed.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> > > From: smokinggun at verizon.net
> > > To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2011 04:23:05 +0000
> > > Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Bill,
> > > Well it was nice of the logging company to hook you up like
> that. I cant
> > > wait to hear it. Sounds like lots of wire !
> > > I have the same mountain conditions here in the Poconos; all
> rock and clay.
> > > I wonder if you still planned on testing a loop with a ground
> screen like
> > > we were discussing a while ago ?
> > >
> > > As far as my loop goes; the Rac went up from 1.18 on Friday to
> 1.38
> > > Saturday ; the day after I elevated the lower leg and trimmed
> the trees. I
> > > dont expect anything went bad in the TX in that time.It would
> be quite a
> > > coincidence. It wasnt a drastic change but I just expected it to
> go down not
> > > up.O h well, maybe my measurements were off before I trimmed but
> I rechecked
> > > the loop current a few times after trimming and again 2 days ago
> and all the
> > > readings are the same.
> > > Good luck with the new antenna raising !
> > >
> > > Rick "PBO"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Bill Ashlock" <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
> > > To: <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> > > Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2011 2:01 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Rick,
> > > >
> > > > Yah, a bit of a shift in loyalty from TX loops to a vertical
> (although not
> > > > quite a traditional form of a vertical). The open area just
> cleared out by
> > > > loggers crys out for a vertical and should give a good A/B
> comparison of
> > > > the performance of these two antennas. They left a huge birch
> tree in the
> > > > center of this area and it is about 120ft from the closest
> tree on my
> > > > property. The plan is to run one rope support end of the "Y"
> over the top
> > > > of this tree and run the other two rope supports to the tops
> of two trees
> > > > on my land forming a 120 deg angle between each rope. The Y
> itself will
> > > > be composed of #12 stranded house wire. A counterpoise with a
>
> > > > geometrically matching "Y" will be 50ft below this. I will be
> filling in
> > > > the "Ys" with smaller gauge wire in order to increase the
> capacity between
> > > > them as much as possible consistent with low cost and low
> weight. The apex
> > > > of the "Ys" of course will be connected to the vertical
> element and the
> > > > loading coil will be hanging in the approx ce
> > > > nter of this. The whole antenna will be floating relative to
> ground
> > > > because of the very poor ground conductivity up here. This
> pretty much
> > > > described my first vertical on site (5 years ago) except it
> was an "X"
> > > > antenna instead of a "Y" and was located in the center of my
> 200ft wide
> > > > lot. The performance of this antenna was quite good (Rac in
> the order of
> > > > 10 ohms) but I had to remove it soon after its installation to
> make room
> > > > for my house. So far I have installed the ropes over the tops
> of two trees
> > > > and should be able to complete the third tomorrow. (BTW I'm
> still doing
> > > > pretty good with the compound bow - now batting 1000 :)
> Luckily the
> > > > weather has been good for this project.
> > > >
> > > > About your loop: What you did shouldn't have raised the Rac.
> Must be
> > > > something very subtle. Are the two lower legs touching
> anything other than
> > > > insulators? That's the most sensitive area. Recheck the Xmter
> on the bench
> > > > and also check the resonating caps if nothing else looks out
> of place.
> > > >
> > > > Bill
> > > >
> > > >> From: smokinggun at verizon.net
> > > >> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >> Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 04:38:17 +0000
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >>
> > > >> Wow Bill; I want to see what that looks like and how it
> performs ! Its a
> > > >> horizontal "Y" ? I guess your feeding it where the 3 legs of
> the "Y"
> > > >> meet?
> > > >> Do tell!
> > > >>
> > > >> BTW : My loop is doing ok.I trimmed some trees and moved the
> feed point
> > > >> from the corner to the center of the loop( shouldnt change
> performance)
> > > >> .That night I was copied by Andy and Doug down in TN ; almost
> 500 miles!
> > > >> Not
> > > >> bad for a new guy ! For some reason though by trimming the
> trees away and
> > > >> raising the lower leg from 4 ft up to 8 ft and moving the
> feedpoint ; my
> > > >> Rac went up ?I was expecting the opposite but what do I
> know.
> > > >> Keep us informed on your "Y " experiment .Im real curious.
> > > >>
> > > >> 73
> > > >> Rick KA2PBO
> > > >> "PBO" 187.2Khz "or so" qrss60
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Bill Ashlock" <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
> > > >> To: <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> > > >> Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2011 4:02 AM
> > > >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Thanks Warren. I'll have to stop in on my next trip south
> and/or give
> > > >> > them
> > > >> > a call. This is for the antenna design that uses a tall
> tree 120ft off
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > the side of my land. This was originally planned to be an
> "H" antenna
> > > >> > (rotated 90deg) but I found the capacity between top and
> bottom
> > > >> > sections
> > > >> > to be only about 100pf and not much more with caged
> conductors. A "Y"
> > > >> > design (looking down from the top) on the other hand has a
> capacity of
> > > >> > almost 400pf if the "Y" is filled-in with a spider web of
> smaller ga
> > > >> > wire.
> > > >> > I can use two trees on my land to form the "Y". (This is a
> Lowfer
> > > >> > antenna,
> > > >> > BTW, fitting inside a 50' x 50' cylinder)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Bill
> > > >> >
> > > >> >> From: k2ors at verizon.net
> > > >> >> To: lowfer at mailman.qth.net
> > > >> >> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2011 22:30:33 -0500
> > > >> >> Subject: Re: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Bill,
> > > >> >> Electronic Surplus Sales in Candia, NH has wire on
> spools at scrap
> > > >> >> prices. Selection varies from day to day, so it might pay
> to check
> > > >> >> with
> > > >> >> them
> > > >> >> first.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> 73 Warren
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> >> From: "Bill Ashlock" <ashlockw at hotmail.com>
> > > >> >> To: <lowfer at mailman.qth.net>
> > > >> >> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 10:06 PM
> > > >> >> Subject: [Lowfer] #18 wire
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Does anyone know of a cheep source for #18 bare stranded
> wire? Need
> > > >> >> > about
> > > >> >> > 500ft for a new Lowfer antenna design.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Used to buy so-called 'chandelier wire' at $12 for a
> 500ft spool at
> > > >> >> > Home
> > > >> >> > Depot but now I'm seeing astronomical prices.
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> > Bill
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
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