[Heathkit] Re: Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC

Mon Nov 7 09:21:13 EST 2005

Looking to a grading standard to help you know if fingerprints are on a
front panel may not be the best answer.

FWIW, I try to ask direct questions about a product I'm considering
purchasing, rather than fish for a stranger's assessment of "nice, mint,
very good, average, etc".

Questions such as:

- any holes, dings, scrapes, scratches, cracked knobs, occluded meter face,
etc?  If so, where?
- ANY modifications?  What?
- Full rated output?
- Original manual?
- etc.

Then, I can make my own judgement on what word I'd use to describe the gear,
but then again, I don't have to at that point.

I don't think it really matters whether you call or write.  Just speak /
write clearly, and listen / read clearly as well.  If you do have any doubts
via email, by all means use the phone as a follow-up measure.  In this case,
it appears that the buyer DID try to work things out on the landline.

On major purchases, I typically "Google" the seller, see if I can find him
on eBay to check feedback, and check Usenet as well.

FWIW.

Jeff
W8KZW

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Today's Topics:

   1. Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC (Ron)
   2. Re: Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC
      (Duane Fischer, W8DBF)
   3. Re: Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC
      (Edward B Richards)
   4. Re: Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC (Jim Shorney)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 16:33:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Ron <ronami at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Heathkit] Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC
To: heathkit at mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: <20051107003339.74609.qmail at web50403.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

The following is posted as a public service.

DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC (dcsfree at comcast.net) posted
a few Hethkit items for sale. I asked him about the
cosmetic condition. He replied that one item was
'real clean' and the other was 'not bad'. Based
on this description, I agreed to pay $50 for both.

When the units arrived, the 'real clean' unit
had extra holes in the front panel... Someone had
replaced the Heathkit connectors with BNC connectors
and, in his wisdom, used flanged connectors that
require 4 additional holes for the screws. The 'not
bad' unit had serious damage to the front panel,
clear through the paint into the metal, in two
spots.

My hobby is refurbishing test instruments to
like-new condition. Dan's description led me
to buy these units. They turned out to be
useless for me.

I wrote Dan to tell him how disappointed I was.
I waited a few days and, since he did not bother
to reply (why was I not surprised?), I gave him
a call. He said that a drilled front panel still
qualifies as 'real clean' and insisted that the
unit with the damaged front panel was 'beautiful'.
Also, that I got what I paid for.

I told him I was going to post here a description
of the transaction. His reponse: 'I do a lot of
business. Losing one or two sales is no big deal
for me.'

If anyone yearns to buy stuff from this paragon
of honesty, I'll be happy to provide his address
and phone number. (The address and phone seem to
be registered to someone else, but Dan did
receive the check I sent to his address and
did answer the phone).

-- Ron

> more items
>
> SW-717 lights up complete no signal with full copy
> of manual
>
> IT-12 signal tracer seems to work with probe
>
> IG-102 Sig gen works great BNC connectors clean
>
> IG-42 Sig gen works don't have the probe.
>
> no reasonable offer refused on any or all of the
> above.
>
>
> Dan K9DTC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
> $$ See the vintage area on the HCI web site -
> http://www.w9wze.org $$
> Heathkit mailing list
> Heathkit at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/heathkit
>

__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:25:28 -0500
From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
Subject: Re: [Heathkit] Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC
To: "Ron" <ronami at yahoo.com>, <heathkit at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <200511070233.jA72Xj1w000627 at smtp.usol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

To All List Subscribers:

This is an example of how communications can go awry when electronic
messages
are used in place of voice communications. It is very easy for one person to
misunderstand the other when written words are used as the communications
medium, as what Bob understands "very clean" to be is not necessarily what
Tom
defines it as being. I strongly suggest to each of you, to use the telephone
and
talk with the seller. If you 'sense' that what he is saying is vague in your
opinion, you can immediately ask him to elaborate, clarify something or be
more
specific, about a certain issue. While this can also be done by e-mail,
often
times the momentary thought may be forgotten by the time you conclude
reading
the post, or get interrupted by a family pet that needs to use the bathroom,
or
a XYL calling you for chow etc. When on the telephone you can ask what you
want
to know right then and there.

Doing so avoids what has happened here! use the phone guys! it can save
friendships, prevent misunderstandings, eliminate negative posts such as
this
that forever cast a shadow of doubt on a person's reputation (Even if proven
incorrect and retracted, the doubt never goes away!) and results in two
happy
parties, seller and buyer.

I encourage Ron and Dan to work this out on the landline and ask all of you
to
reserve judgment as none of us have the facts before us to make our own
impartial evaluation and then draw conclusions.

Duane Fische
r, W8DBF

----------
From: Ron <ronami at yahoo.com>
To: heathkit at mailman.qth.net
Subject: [Heathkit] Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC
Date: Sunday, November 06, 2005 7:33 PM

The following is posted as a public service.

DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC (dcsfree at comcast.net) posted
a few Hethkit items for sale. I asked him about the
cosmetic condition. He replied that one item was
'real clean' and the other was 'not bad'. Based
on this description, I agreed to pay $50 for both.

When the units arrived, the 'real clean' unit
had extra holes in the front panel... Someone had
replaced the Heathkit connectors with BNC connectors
and, in his wisdom, used flanged connectors that
require 4 additional holes for the screws. The 'not
bad' unit had serious damage to the front panel,
clear through the paint into the metal, in two
spots.

My hobby is refurbishing test instruments to
like-new condition. Dan's description led me
to buy these units. They turned out to be
useless for me.

I wrote Dan to tell him how disappointed I was.
I waited a few days and, since he did not bother
to reply (why was I not surprised?), I gave him
a call. He said that a drilled front panel still
qualifies as 'real clean' and insisted that the
unit with the damaged front panel was 'beautiful'.
Also, that I got what I paid for.

I told him I was going to post here a description
of the transaction. His reponse: 'I do a lot of
business. Losing one or two sales is no big deal
for me.'

If anyone yearns to buy stuff from this paragon
of honesty, I'll be happy to provide his address
and phone number. (The address and phone seem to
be registered to someone else, but Dan did
receive the check I sent to his address and
did answer the phone).

-- Ron

> more items
>
> SW-717 lights up complete no signal with full copy
> of manual
>
> IT-12 signal tracer seems to work with probe
>
> IG-102 Sig gen works great BNC connectors clean
>
> IG-42 Sig gen works don't have the probe.
>
> no reasonable offer refused on any or all of the
> above.
>
>
> Dan K9DTC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
> $$ See the vintage area on the HCI web site -
> http://www.w9wze.org $$
> Heathkit mailing list
> Heathkit at mailman.qth.net
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/heathkit
>

__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
_______________________________________________
List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
$$ See the vintage area on the HCI web site - http://www.w9wze.org $$
Heathkit mailing list
Heathkit at mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/heathkit

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:07:15 -0800
From: Edward B Richards <zuu6k at juno.com>
Subject: Re: [Heathkit] Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC
To: dfischer at usol.com
Cc: ronami at yahoo.com, heathkit at mailman.qth.net
Message-ID: <20051106.210716.668.3.zuu6k at juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Duane is correct and offers good advice. I think we need to agree on a
set of terms to describe the condition of equipment. Very few people
would consider holes in the front panel "clean". "clean" does not mean
just free of dirt. It means free of damage, defacing, holes, dents,
bends, missing parts, etc. I think Dan mis-represented the condition and
should refund Ron's money and pay shipping both ways if he wants the
equipment back.

Another much mis-used term is "mint". I don't see it as much recently,
but every now and then. "Mint" means the same as the day it was
manufactured. It comes from coin collector's vocabulary and means the
same condition as when it was minted. For radios, it means never taken
out of the box and used. Even fingerprints on a piece of equipment keeps
it from being "mint".

73, Ed Richards, K6UUZ
Simi Valley, California, 93065
Home of Air Force 1 Pavilion

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:25:28 -0500 "Duane Fischer, W8DBF"
<dfischer at usol.com> writes:
> To All List Subscribers:
>
> This is an example of how communications can go awry when electronic
> messages
> are used in place of voice communications. It is very easy for one
> person to
> misunderstand the other when written words are used as the
> communications
> medium, as what Bob understands "very clean" to be is not
> necessarily what Tom
> defines it as being. I strongly suggest to each of you, to use the
> telephone and
> talk with the seller. If you 'sense' that what he is saying is vague
> in your
> opinion, you can immediately ask him to elaborate, clarify something
> or be more
> specific, about a certain issue. While this can also be done by
> e-mail, often
> times the momentary thought may be forgotten by the time you
> conclude reading
> the post, or get interrupted by a family pet that needs to use the
> bathroom, or
> a XYL calling you for chow etc. When on the telephone you can ask
> what you want
> to know right then and there.
>
> Doing so avoids what has happened here! use the phone guys! it can
> save
> friendships, prevent misunderstandings, eliminate negative posts
> such as this
> that forever cast a shadow of doubt on a person's reputation (Even
> if proven
> incorrect and retracted, the doubt never goes away!) and results in
> two happy
> parties, seller and buyer.
>
> I encourage Ron and Dan to work this out on the landline and ask all
> of you to
> reserve judgment as none of us have the facts before us to make our
> own
> impartial evaluation and then draw conclusions.
>
> Duane Fische
> r, W8DBF

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 23:36:30 -0600 (CST)
From: "Jim Shorney" <jshorney at inebraska.com>
Subject: Re: [Heathkit] Scam alert - beware of DAN COTSIRILOS K9DTC
To: "heathkit at mailman.qth.net" <heathkit at mailman.qth.net>
Message-ID: <20051107053607.08CAB1EA1D837 at duck.inebraska.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:07:15 -0800, Edward B Richards wrote:

>Duane is correct and offers good advice. I think we need to agree on a
>set of terms to describe the condition of equipment.

This might be a good start:

http://www.zerobeat.net/drakelist/drakegrading.html

The Drake guys adapted it from the Collins guys, maybe the Heath guys
can use it too....

--
Jim Shorney      -->.<--Put complaints in this box
jshorney (at) inebraska.com
Ham Radio NU0C
Lincoln, NE, USA
EN10ps
http://incolor.inetnebr.com/jshorney/

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
$$ See the vintage area on the HCI web site - http://www.w9wze.org $$
Heathkit mailing list
Heathkit at mailman.qth.net
http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/heathkit

End of Heathkit Digest, Vol 22, Issue 6
***************************************