[HCARC] Antennas, Radios and Elmering
Bill Tynan
billandmattie at windstream.net
Sun Aug 5 16:54:09 EDT 2012
Gary:
You asked abt what Club members were using. So, OK, here I go. My main rig
is a Flex 5000A, software defined radio. I would NOT suggest it for your
first rig. One, it is quite expensive - abt $2500. Two, you need a computer
to go with it and it should be at least a dual core machine running Window
XP or beyond. I am still running XP. It puts out abt 90 Watts on 160 thru 6
meters. However, since I have no HF antennas, I have only used it on 6
meters, and with the optional VU module, on 2 meters and 70 cm.
I also have a Yaesu FT-736R with 2 meters, 222 MHz ,432 and 1296 in it. I
use it on 222 & 1296 but am in the process of replacing it with transverters
for those bands. I also have an Icom 706 Mk2G which covers 160 thru 70 cm.
As I recall it only puts out 10 Watts on 70 cm and 50 Watts on 2 meters, but
100 Watts on the other bands. It can work SSB, CW and FM. So, it can be used
on the Club repeater. It is small and my be more acceptable to a wife who is
not too enthused abt ham radio than might some of the boatanchors one runs
into, HI!
The newest version of the 706 series is the IC-7000 which has a fancier
readout and possibly some other features. The original 706 covered up to 2
meters and had only 10 Watts out on 2 meters. The 706s make a fair SSB
radios, but are not great on FM. Though they work CW, it is not their strong
suit, either. The receive passband is too wide for good CW work. Thus, one
can be bothered by QRM from stations near the frequency. I do not know if
the 7000 is any better in this regard.
One thought on the AS-2259. I have never seen one and don't even know what
one is. But from the discussion, it sounds like it is fed with fairly stout
pipe which also serves as the coasual transmission line. If that line of 50
Ohms, then one might be able to use it as the vertical support, then cut 1/4
wave pieces of wire, one set for 80 meters and the other for 40 meters , not
using the wires that the AS-2259 comes with. Anything witha 10 to 1 VSWR is
a no no. These wires should run out perpendicular to each other as much as
possible. The ends can be at ground level or better elevated 6 to 10feet.
Depending on how high the center is, you end up with inverted Vs for 80 and
40. The 40 meter wires will also work on 15 meters.
On 80 and 40, the impedance will be close to 50 ohms. Yes a half wave dipole
at a fair height above ground has an impedance of about 75 Ohms. But, when
the antenna is closer to the ground, such as in an inverted V arrangement,
the impedance is lowered to abt 50 Ohms - just what one is looking for.
If the pipe on the AS-2259 is not long (high) enough, you could get
substantial piece of aluminium or steel pipe and lash the AS-2259 feed pipe
to it with muffler clamps, thus extending it.
If the AS-2259 feed pipe is not 50 Ohms, forget what I just said and get
mast of some sort 20 to 30 feet high and use it to support the two half wave
inverted Vs. Don't worry about baluns or the coax radiating. You don't care.
Yes, this is a so-called NVIS antenna, but you will be able to work stations
500 to 1000 miles away when conditions are right as well as the ones closer
in. You might, or might not, need an antenna tuner to work 15 meters. On 15
meters, it will not be and NVIS as 21 MHz is almost always above the
critical frequency (that which is directly reflected back to Earth).
Any kind of vertical antenna will have a lower angle or radiation than the
inverted V, and hence has the potential of working stations farther away.
However, if it is anything other than a half wave vertical, like a 1/4 wave
vertical, it will require ground radials - the more the better. AM broadcast
stations normally use 120. As sort of minum is 4. If you are on soft ground
and have acreage, it is not a big problem to burry radials. Of course, the
expense of buying the wire can present a problem. But if you are on rock as
I am, burying radials is a major undertaking.
My understanding is that the Gapp vertical at the Club station is a half
wave antenna and thus does not require radials. However, I believe that it
works only on 20 thru 10 meters. Someone may correct me on this.
I know that this has been a lot to swallow.
There will NOT be a quiz in the morning.
You asked about Belton. Belton is a hamfest which is held twice per year at
the Bell County Exhibition Center south of Temple. I'm sure Google will give
you specific dates etc.
I hope this helps too.
73,
Bill, W3XO/5
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary and Arlene Johnson" <qltfnish at omniglobal.net>
To: "Bob Richie" <bob.k5yb at yahoo.com>
Cc: <hcarc at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [HCARC] Antennas, Radios and Elmering
> Bob,
>
> I claim to be someone who doesn't mind moving someone out of their comfort
> zone. As such I have no problem what so ever with someone doing the same
> to me. Smart ass questions can do that and to be really honest, it felt
> good to go back and try to remember some of the genetics info from the far
> distant past (40+ years ago). Hard to believe but true.
>
> If I eliminate all those criteria when reading eham reviews there aren't
> any reviews left to read :-). Your comments go along way to prove that
> the people you ask about a radio should be people you trust, and I can't
> think of any group of Hams that I trust better than the members of HCARC.
> Hence all the more reason for a listing of what radios each member runs.
> I know that we don't like to be on lists, but it surely helps people find
> the right people to answer specific questions and since the roster is
> password protected, members should be fairly certain that the information
> is protected.
>
> Gary J
> N5"BAA"
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Richie
> To: Gary and Arlene Johnson
> Cc: HCARC at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 12:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [HCARC] Antennas, Radios and Elmering
>
>
> I was kind of being a smart ass about the mutation question but it kind
> of makes my point and that is "well, it depends." It's kind of like
> radioactive decay - it's pretty easy to measure rates over time with great
> precision. We have no way to predict when a certain atom will decay. If
> you ask 6 hams for an opinion you will get at least thirteen definite
> answers and another nine qualified answers. You've gotten several
> suggestions for a rig and if you are looking for operating experience the
> rig does not matter.
>
>
> Here are some hints for looking at reviews on e-Ham. Forget the 5s. They
> are either from folks who are reporting the radio is performing as
> advertised or are brand devotees. Some guys wont drive anything but Fords.
> If the reviewer has operated the rig for less than about 90 days discount
> the review. If the guy just looked at it and didn't like the paint color,
> forget it. If a reviewer complains about a problem no one else reports, be
> careful. If a reviewer tries to compare the rig to another, forget it.
>
> Bob
> K5YB
> Kerrville, TX 78028
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Gary and Arlene Johnson <qltfnish at omniglobal.net>
> To: Bob Richie <bob.k5yb at yahoo.com>
> Cc: HCARC at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 11:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [HCARC] Antennas, Radios and Elmering
>
>
>
> In laymans terms you can't predict purely random mutations. That's why
> they are RANDOM. In layman's terms you can effect mutations and expect
> mutations by bombarding DNA and RNA with radiation. You cannot predict a
> perfectly random distribution of ionizing radiation as to which cell it
> might affect. Since it is purely a random distribution over the direction
> the beam of radiation is applied you would expect a random number of cells
> to be affected. We are dealing with a purely random event, although if I
> were to bombard the cells for a long enough time all would have mutations,
> but the cells would be dead first.
>
> My problem with Ohms law is I assume it is NOT RANDOM and that resistance
> in a copper wire of 14 guage should be within limits pretty much the same
> dependent upon the diameter (gauge of the wire). This shouldn't be
> random - more a function of the ability of a wire to be drawn to a nominal
> thickness. I am told that the resistance of wire increases as distance
> increases in a copper wire, hence to run a certain amount of a/c
> electricity from my shop to one of my barns (450 feet away) requires
> larger and larger wire to reduce the resistance or I guess, to spread the
> resistance out over a longer wire diameter. Said another way, the longer
> the distance run, the larger the wire required. In the instance of the
> antenna Coax we were talking about previously, normal RG58 coax has a
> copper conductor that is probably somewhere around 20 gauge and it has a
> 50 ohm resistance. The hard line mast for the AS-2259 which I am told is
> COAX has a conductor inside (copper as far as I can
> tell) that is approx 1/4 inch in diameter inside of a hard casing with
> dielectric that is 1 1/2 inches in diameter - why supposedly does it have
> an enormous resistance??? One would guess that the 1/4 inch copper
> conductor would have much less reisitance than the much smaller RG58
> conductor. OR somehow the resistance is being affected by other factors
> that I am unaware of. Please explain.
>
> As for a 2 element answer to the radio - yes an Icom 746 might work, so
> would Icom 756 and the 756 Pro series of which the 7410 has largely
> replaced. Really the Icom 7600 replaced the the 756's and the 7410
> replaced the 746. Having had a permanent search on Ebay that sends me an
> email every time Icom 746 and 756 (and many others too) appears in any
> auction I can tell you that the cost for a used one of either is almost as
> much as a new 7410. And BTW, if you ask Dale, the first radios I talked
> to him about when I took his course were 746's and 756's. I have been
> compiling some information about radios for other Newbies that I come
> across who are looking for radios. What I cannot ever gain is the
> perspective that people have who have operated these radios over a period
> of years. Eham tries to do some of that, but the reviews are as random as
> the person operating the radio and that person is unknown. Who knows if
> that person had the smarts to get the SWR low enough that
> he didn't fry the transmitter and aren't ALL PROBLEMS THE MANUFACTURERS
> PROBLEMS, NEVER THE OPERATOR. I am smart enough to know that just like
> airplane crashes and car accidents - the majority of the time problems are
> caused by operator error.
>
> OK, rather than a list of radios that are recommended for Newbies, then
> how about in the club roster, each person list the radios they commonly
> operate with, so if a newbie or an oldie wanted to know about a certain
> radio they would know which members to go and ask. It doesn't have to be
> hard. As for me, I probably will wait and get either the 7410 or 7600
> finances permitting. I have been saving since I began Dale's Course back
> in Feb or March. However, I was under the impression that this site
> (Reflector) was for the benefit of all the members, not just me. Hence,
> when talking about radios, I talk about radios available to more than just
> me. Chuck Hopkins is using my General CLass Exam Book to get his upgrade.
> I can guarantee he will be going through the same decisions that I am when
> he decides to get his HF radio. Wouldn't it be nice for him to have some
> kind of database of some sort to go through to make an easier intelligent
> decision on what to buy or as importa
> nt - what to stay away from.
>
> Gary J
> N5"BAA"
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Bob Richie
> To: Gary and Arlene Johnson
> Cc: HCARC Reflector
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 7:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [HCARC] Antennas, Radios and Elmering
>
>
> OK, you want a simple two element answer. here it is.
> Get yourself a good used Icom 746 and a Hustler 4 BTV vertical. You can
> easily modify the antenna to add 12 meter and 17 meter capability and you
> can screw an 80 meter ham stick into the top to add 80 meters. When your
> operating abilities exceed the capability of that system, ask your
> questions again.
>
>
> Don't like that answer? Then try this one. Wait until you can get the
> Icom 7410 since that seems to be the rig you want. If you can't get it
> right away that's ok. It is a fairly new rig and there may be some new rig
> issues to work out.
>
>
> As for the microbiology, please explain in layman's terms how you
> predict mutations.
>
> Bob
> K5YB
> Kerrville, TX 78028
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: Gary and Arlene Johnson <qltfnish at omniglobal.net>
> To: HCARC at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 11:45 PM
> Subject: [HCARC] Antennas, Radios and Elmering
>
>
> First to Bill Tynan - IT ALL HELPS - thank you very much for the
> response, and you answered my question in terms I could understand. I
> asked what time it was and you told me. Congratulations, you are one of
> the first!! Barb S. will understand the last comment.
>
> Second to Bob R. - IT ALL HELPS TOO - However, If I were to have
> anywhere close to that many radios I would be divorced - no kidding!!! My
> wife is not that supportive of this "Extra Hobby". It's the single most
> important reason why I am trying to find the best fit for being able to
> comfortably and reliably communicate with the least amount of gear trouble
> possible. At least at first, I would really like to be able to eliminate
> (if at all possible) the radio from being a source of problems. It's hard
> enough to learn all (some) that one needs to know without having to fight
> a radio too. Trust me, I have been looking for the right radio. The Icom
> 7410 which I have pretty well settled on (unless I can afford by some
> miracle an ICOM 7600 - not likely) as the radio I want to get pretty well
> makes it easy for me to get in and get my feet wet - reliably. I cringe
> at the thought of trying to tell my wife I need/want 4-6 different radios
> for different things. As for a nich
> e -
> I am a retired Naval Officer who was fortunate enough in his 24 1/2
> year career to have traveled almost completely around the world. The only
> part I haven't been through (and really never wanted to go there) is from
> the Indian Ocean side of the Suez Canal to the area around Thailand.
> Other than that I have been the rest of the way around this big blue orb
> including Antarctica (3 summer seasons) and South Pole. In fact I was
> lucky enough to have been able to make a MARS phone patch from
> Amundson/Scott South Pole Station back to California. Bill Tynan told me
> the other night it was too bad I wasn't a HAM at that time so I could have
> taken a couple of handy talky's and communicated from each of the worlds
> time zones simply by having walked around the South Pole. I desire to be
> able to talk as far around the world as possible, to as many people as
> possible, as often as possible. At this point in my Radio experience I
> find PSK31 and RTTY somewhat BORING, however I recogni
> ze
> both as being ways to "talk" when propagation on the different bands is
> not conducive to SSB. Yes, I know that CW is even better, and trust me I
> will get there, but I am not close to "there" yet. There are many things
> that pull on my time, some of which are raising sheep and goats and Stock
> Guard Dogs, being married, and radio has to fit in with those for time.
> Thankfully, radio works in the dark of night, and thankfully I have a good
> retirement - otherwise there would have been no time to even start. If I
> had to try to juggle full time employment with all the other things going
> on I would not have even gotten started in Dale's class either. Oh, did I
> mention I like to fish too??
>
> I do not think I am that much different than most of the new Hams I
> have met. As a group, we seem somewhat frustrated with one thing or
> another. Some of us are trying to find the right radio, others are
> struggling with antennas, some are struggling with finances in this poor
> economy. The simple statement of "just get a radio and try it out" seems
> the easy way out when someone asking for information. It might be the
> proper response, but I don't think so - yet. Of the group of Newbies, I
> am (probably) the most vocal. I don't mind trying to move people out of
> their comfort zones. I probably ruin more relationships than I help.
> Tilting with windmills is a past time of mine. And if you haven't
> realized it yet I am not afraid to toss in my 2 cents worth - frequently
> too my detriment. The only bad question truely is the one not asked - I
> live by that motto. At least I try though - shy, I am not.
>
> Last to Kerry - IT ALL HELPS TOO!! However, some things don't seem to
> follow as to why some things have high ohms resistance and others - not so
> much. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason to so much of it. My
> Masters is in Microbiology. In the sciences we were taught that things
> should follow in an orderly manner, obeying the rules. Yeah, sure they
> do!!!
>
> I look forward to getting a few antennas and a radio together and
> trying them out. Say when and I will buy the donuts. Coffee and tea is
> BYOB as I am LDS (Mormon - we don't do coffee). And yes we should do it
> when Jeff is available for the donuts.
>
> Gary J
> N5"BAA"
> ______________________________________________________________
> HCARC mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> HCARC mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/hcarc
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:HCARC at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
More information about the HCARC
mailing list