[Ham-Computers] RE: Is Smaller Really Larger?

Hsu, Aaron (NBC Universal) aaron.hsu at nbcuni.com
Thu Sep 14 19:19:56 EDT 2006 

Hee hee, as great a program as IrfanView is, I hate the way it prints.  Especially when it comes to sizing the print out - the "Original size (from DPI)" setting doesn't seem to work as expected.

Instead of "Original size", use the "Scale" option (press S instead of O).  Then press TAB and type the number "1" - this sets the X axis scaling to 1.  Then press TAB and type the number "1" again - this sets the Y axis scaling to 1.  Once you've done this, it tells IrfanView to print at a 1-to-1 scale on both the X and Y axis.  I think this is what the "Original" setting is supposed to do, but it doesn't do this.  This should print your scan at it's original size (1-to-1 ratio).

To review, open the "Print" dialogue, press "S", TAB, 1, TAB, 1.  Make any additional settings changes you need, then TAB to the PRINT button and press enter.

The filetype and compression ratio don't apply to the issue you're seeing...it's an IrfanView thing.  If anything, you could probably save the 300 DPI JPG at 75% quality setting and still get better print results verses no compression at 150 DPI.  I generally save my JPG's at 80% unless they're bound for an e-mail - then it drops to 25 to 40%.  If the "Scale" print setting still doesn't work, let's then take a look at the filetype and compression settings.

73,

  - Aaron, NN6O


-----Original Message-----
From: ham-computers-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:ham-computers-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Duane Fischer, W8DBF
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 4:03 PM
To: Computers (or other) used for amateur radio, communications, or experimenting
Subject: Re: [Ham-Computers] RE: Is Smaller Really Larger?

Aaron,

It defaults to IrfanView V397 I know that you have and use this program, so I do not need to explain menus etc.

After I press CTRL P, there are five choices for printing; same size as original DPI, best fit to page, custom resolution - user sets the horizontal and vertical image dimensions etc.

IrfanView comes up showing the file name you loaded and the PI, I need the conversion to inches!

What I do not understand Aaron, is I scanned the photo at 150 DPI, saved it as a .tif and then as a .jpg with zero compression Then I increased the scanning resolution from 150 to 300 PI. I saved it with 95% quality or 5% compression.

When I printed the .tif, I got black and white. When I printed the first .jpg using 150 dpi it looked good. When I printed the .jpg using 300 PI and 100% quality, it was too big and went off the bottom of the page by 1/4 inch. When I printed the same image with 300 PI, but with 95% quality, it fit, but I got distortion on one image!

Tell me this:

If I scan at 150 PI, save as a .jpg with no compression, or 100% quality, then print using IrfanView, select custom, set the horizontal at 5.0 and let it calculate the vertical, then print. How come the printed image is larger than I specified?

Maybe we should go at this another way with a totally blind man!

I have a .jpg image of 452000 size. I load IrfanView. Press O, type in the file name and location. It loads it. I press 'no' keys. I hit CTRL P to print. Now Aaron from the printer menu that comes up, HP P1000C if it matters, what options do I use? Such as which one of the five printing choices; same as original DPI size, best fit to page etc.

Thank you.

DBF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hsu, Aaron (NBC Universal)" <aaron.hsu at nbcuni.com>
To: "I>Ham-Computers" <Ham-Computers at mailman.qth.net>
Cc: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: [Ham-Computers] RE: Is Smaller Really Larger?


> Hi Duane,
>
> Sounds like it's a printer setting issue in the program you're using to 
> print the scan.  Some programs keep the previous print settings.  Since 
> you previously printed at 150dpi to match the 150dpi scan, the program may 
> have kept the 150dpi print setting when you tried to print the 300dpi 
> scan.  This would result in a print scaled by 2 - in other words, the 
> print is now twice as large.  Why?  The program prints at 150dpi, as you 
> requested, but there's actually 300dpi of data; therefore, to print the 
> entire image, it requires twice the amount of print space.
>
> Check the print dpi setting in the program you're using.  If the program 
> doesn't allow dpi print adjustments, make sure the program is set to 
> "scale" the photo to whatever actual print size you wish to print.  Most 
> programs (photo or graphics editors) allow you to set the output size in 
> inches (or pixels) and the program will shrink or expand the image to fit 
> those dimensions.
>
> Matching scan dpi with print dpi is a baffling situation for many people. 
> That's why companies such as HP don't use dpi as a descriptor in their 
> programs.  Instead, the program asks "what kind of document are you 
> scanning (or printing)?  The program then sets what dpi it thinks is best 
> based on the type of document.  The same occurs when you print - the 
> program asks "what size would you like?" and prints the document/image 
> fitted to that size.  They're basically assuming that you chose the right 
> document type when you scanned the document to get the right results.  For 
> example, if you said that the image was for an e-mail, it would scan at 72 
> dpi.  However, if you try to print it to 8 x 10, it would look horrible. 
> But, it's still easier than teaching the average person about Dots Per 
> Inch (dpi) and what scanner/printer settings to adjust.  It gets worse 
> during the explaination of "true" dpi vs "interpolated" dpi.  I digress.
>
>
> 73,
>
>  - Aaron Hsu, NN6O
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 2:52 PM
> Subject: [Ham-Computers] Is Smaller Really Larger?
>
>
> Hello All,
>
> I would greatly appreciate it if one of you would explain some object 
> resolution puzzles to me. Some who are sighted, unlike myself, may benefit 
> also. Thanks!
>
> FYI: I was normally sighted until the eve of my eighteenth birthday when a 
> careless Pheasant hunter shot me.
>
> I have a printed document that measures 8W by 10H, portrait orientation. I 
> scanned it at the default DPI of 150, quarter inch margins, both sides, 
> top and bottom. It was scanned in color.  It was saved as a .jpg with no 
> compression.
>
> The image printed out fine. Correct margins, correct size.
>
> I scanned the image a second time, but I increased the DPI to 300. I also 
> used 5% compression.
>
> This time the image was large enough that the last line of text was 
> missing.
> It also pushed the margins out.
>
> Here is where I am confused. When the number of dots in a given area 
> increases, from 150 per inch to 300 per inch, the image quality, AKA 
> resolution?, improves. Instead of making the image smaller, it made it 
> larger. I thought that less dots per inch would make it larger with lower 
> resolution, but it is working in reverse, or so it seems based on the 
> description related to me.
>
> What I want is a quarter inch border/margin, all the way around. The image 
> should be 8X10. However, I can get along with a half inch border and 
> smaller image. The image could be between 5X7 and 8X10, for instance.
>
> I want the best detail I can get.
>
> Since the image consists of four color photos and some text, I saved it as 
> a .tif I also saved it as a .jpg for comparison.
>
> The .tif is too large, for some reason.
>
> How did I get the original image? My daughter used some version of Adobe 
> and created it. She printed a copy with quarter inch margins. The file she 
> gave me was the one Adobe writes with its own particular extension. Which 
> fails to load into any software I have! Adobe I do not use for personal 
> reasons.
>
> Since I had the image on paper, I thought I could just scan it, size it to 
> be an 8X10, save it to disc and print it. Which is exactly what I did. The 
> problem arose when the higher resolution image did not fit the 8.5X11 
> paper I was using.
>
> The scanned image at 150 DPI fit, but I thought I could improve the 
> quality by doing what I have beeninstructed to do by those who know what 
> they are doing when it comes to graphics. Namely, increase the DPI for 
> scanning and the compress it down to fit.
>
> Help!
>
> What is the best way to get a good scan of this image and then print it on 
> normal photo soft gloss paper stock of 8.5X11 without exceeding the 
> margins and/or going off the page?
>
> Duane W8DBF
> dfischer at usol.com
>
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