[Ham-Computers] RE: SATA HD failures on Promise RAID 1 controller

Mon Nov 13 20:40:53 EST 2006

Additionally, going finger in socket with Aaron's keen observations, also 
check the current at the wall outlet. This can vary considerably during high 
customer use periods throughout the day and evening. It is less costly for 
the utility company to generate more current than less current. So guess 
which way they lean?

While there is no sure thing in life, except Fischer's Law: the only sure 
thing, is that there is no sure thing! It sure does no harm to have adequate 
voltage surge protection. I have a plug into the wall outlet surge 
suppressor that allows you to plug one device into it. I plug a six outlet 
power strip in there, which also has both surge protection and a circuit 
breaker with reset switch. The UPC filtered and regulated power 
supply/battery backup is plugged into the power strip. There have been four 
times I remember that this has saved my bacon, or at least prevented a 
crispy rump roast here in the Ham Shack! (chuckle)

As usual, Aaron's advice is good food for thought. But I would also cover 
all the bases and be sure that the wall current is:

A. Adequate and not running on the low side during peak use hours or at 
'any' time.
B. That the wall current is not dangerously high and causing instability, as 
well as possible failure and/or damage, to the computer's power supply
C. If you have a VOM, or have a friend with one that knows how to use it, 
check the current/voltage and how much the computer's PS is drawing. 
Sometimes the hardware you have added may excede the safe maximum power 
output of the internal computer PS. Strain can = failure!

Duane Fischer, W8DBF
dfischer at usol.com
HHI web site: http://www.w9wze.net
Historic Halligan Radio Project:
http://www.hhrp/w9wze.net/

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hsu, Aaron (NBC Universal)" <aaron.hsu at nbcuni.com>
To: "I>Ham-Computers" <Ham-Computers at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:04 PM
Subject: [Ham-Computers] RE: SATA HD failures on Promise RAID 1 controller

> Mike,
>
> I would seriously look into a possible power supply problem.  You didn't 
> mention what the specific drive failures were.  One drive failing in a 
> RAID 1 set is probable (not uncommon).  Both at the same time is 
> suspicious.  Now that one of the replacement drives has failed (with no 
> other equipment changes), start looking for a root cause to the failures. 
> The  power supply is a likely culprit.  It's extremely rare that a drive 
> controller would cause a physical drive failure, but if the signaling 
> voltages are wrong, that could be a cause.
>
> How old is the system?  Don't forget that a few years ago, industrial 
> espionage "gone wrong" caused a *LOT* of electrolytic capacitor failures 
> (a electrolyte formula was stolen, but it was missing a stabilizing 
> ingredient...in short, the caps would vent hydrogen and blow).  Many 
> vendors unknowingly purchased caps with the unstable electrolyte which 
> caused equipment failure within two years.  The electrolyte was used 
> primarily in larger capacitors (>1000uF) typically found in power supply 
> circuits.
>
> Ironically, this past weekend, I worked on a system that had a power 
> supply failure 1 year ago; but this time, the hard drive failed.  I 
> replaced the HD and everything seemed to work fine until I dropped the 
> system off with the client...the system refused to boot.  After 15 minutes 
> of "tinkering", I took the system back to my workbench and spent 30 
> minutes checking all the cable connections and bench testing the power 
> supply (including checking ripple on a 'scope) - still no go.  So, out 
> comes the motherboard from the case - BINGO!  Of 19 "larger" electrolytic 
> caps, 9 were bulging and 4 had burst and were leaking from the top.  These 
> caps were part of the voltage regulator circuitry for the CPU.  A brief 
> search on the net and I discovered that these 1500uF and 3300uF caps can 
> drop to as low as 75uF after they burst and leak.  This would cause power 
> instability that could blow the main power supply (which previously 
> happened).  For reference, the motherboard was from a high-tier vendor 
> (Gigabyte).  Asus, Abit, and other motherboard manufacturers (as well as 
> many cell phone manufacturers) were also affected by this industrial 
> espionage gone wrong.
>
> So, before you replace the drive(s) again, do a more thorough check into 
> why the drives are failing.  The caps I mentioned are also found (in 
> larger sizes) in power supplies and if the power supply caps have vented 
> (or burst), you could be seeing abnormal voltages or high-voltage spikes 
> on the power leads which could be causing your drive failures.
>
> As for re-installing the OS, it depends on the "format" the drive is in. 
> I remember the older Promise controllers used different drive parameters 
> to access the drive (as opposed to the parameters set by the BIOS).  This 
> difference prevented you from moving the drive from the Promise controller 
> to the on-board IDE controller.  One way around this is to use a drive 
> imaging utility (such as GHOST) to do a drive to drive transfer.  Install 
> the new drive on the on-board IDE controller and keep the "working" RAID 
> drive on the Promise.  Then use the utility to "image" the drives. 
> Another option is to continue to use the Promise controller in a 
> single-drive configuration - I believe you just turn "off" the RAID 1 
> function and let it run the drive as a single drive.
>
>
> 73 and good luck!
>
>  - Aaron Hsu, NN6O
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:29 PM
> Subject: [Ham-Computers] SATA HD failures on Promise RAID 1 controller
>
> ASUS A7V Deluxe MB
> Windows XP Pro
>
> About a year ago I had two Maxtor 250 GB SATA drives fail in RAID 1 on the 
> Promise PDC20378 controller of an ASUS A7V Deluxe MB. I replaced both 
> failed drives with Seagate 250 GB SATA drives. Now, it appears one of the 
> Seagate drives failed--upon reboot I'm getting the disk failure error 
> message (one drive failed). I don't understand why hard drives on this 
> motherboard are experiencing such a high failure rate. However, I suspect 
> the Promise RAID controller is to blame. I installed the most recent 
> driver when I replaced both drives.
>
> Should I abandon RAID and just use one hard drive? My system is working 
> okay otherwise, even with the failed hard drive message. If I decide to 
> remove the failed drive and just use the one good drive, how do I go about 
> doing this? I assume I can do this without having to reload the operating 
> system, applications and data?
>
> If I purchase a new Seagate 250 GB SATA drive, can I replace the failed 
> drive without having to reload the operating system, applications and 
> data?
> The instructions don't go into detail on this, but indicates it's 
> possible.
>
> Thank you.
>
> 73 de Mike, N9BOR
> A-1, FISTS, JARL A-1, SMC
> http://www.n9bor.us
> http://www.k9ya.org
>
> di dah dit - The only Roger Beep you'll ever need.
> Let your fingers do the talking - Morse code.
> My designated driver is a 12BY7A.
>
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