[GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem

Sat Mar 19 13:27:50 EDT 2022

Well, your gmail account WAS set to moderation for some reason, but is not now (since you are not on digest).

________________________________
From: Joe Duszyński <joeduszynski1 at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 10:23 AM
To: gil baudot.net <gil at baudot.net>
Cc: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>; Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem

I totally understand about "Clunky old email systems" I deal with a few myself LOL.
What gets me is the moderation message... I never had the GMAIL in digest mode
The original email I signed up with was joeyd at modempool.com<http://modempool.com> but it no longer exists due to buyouts and mergers.

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:49 PM gil baudot.net<http://baudot.net> <gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>> wrote:
No, it didn't bounce back to you -- you probably got a moderation message -- your account was on moderation, so yeah, that means your posts don't show up until I approve them, something I try to check once or twice a day.  Your other account was not on  moderation, so yes, posts pretty immediately.  I don't know why that other account was on moderation, but I removed moderation on that, so go to town.

The only reason that accounts are on moderation is for folks who are in digest mode, so I can keep giant digest replies and incorrect subject lines from contaminating the archive and making it difficult to follow a thread.  This is a clunky old email message system, but it is what it is.

gil
________________________________
From: Joe Duszyński <joeduszynski1 at gmail.com<mailto:joeduszynski1 at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2022 9:00 AM
To: Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net<mailto:paul0926 at comcast.net>>
Cc: gil baudot.net<http://baudot.net> <gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>>; Greenkeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem

Paul,

ANYTIME I post to greenkeys with this email joeduszynski1 at gmail.com<http://gmail.com>. It bounces back with a message similar to theses.
After a few hours and sometimes a whole day it will get posted. I watch Autostart and the forum archive for it to show up which it eventually does.

If i post it with my work account it will show up instantly.

It is NOW 11:59am EDT I will post a similar email whit the other in a moment and you can see the difference in the forum archive.

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net<mailto:paul0926 at comcast.net>> wrote:
When you guys say it “bounced”, what do you mean?

A few years ago there was a big discussion here and the conclusion was that Gmail was filtering out the received message because it was the same as the sent message. The return incoming message was filtered out by gmail, but not the outgoing message. It only happened with list type servers like greenkeys.

It’s mad because you don’t really know if it actually went out (it always did). Our conclusion then was that you just had to have faith.

Paul
W2TTY

ITTY: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8000/ITTY<HTTP://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY>
ITTY 100:  HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8010/ITTY100
AUTOSTART: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART<HTTP://internet-tty.net:8030/AUTOSTART>
EUROPE: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8040/EUROPE<HTTP://internet-tty.net:8040/EUROPE>

On Mar 19, 2022, at 4:08 PM, Joe Duszyński <joeduszynski1 at gmail.com<mailto:joeduszynski1 at gmail.com>> wrote:

I would add Tom's problem and my problem both probably occur because of gmail.
When I send to the list from my work email joeyd at northwest-denture.com<http://northwest-denture.com> it always directly posts never a problem BUT when I send from my Gmail it bounces 100%(pct) of the time.  This is evidenced by my two posts from the work account and then the post from the gmail showing up at different times the work email was instant the gmail posted whenever whatever intervention took place. I do not prefer to use my work email for Greenkeys but it let me know that the issue was not the content but more likely that it didn't like something about the email account.

Here is the kicker to all this. Google's mail runs my work email.

I originally thought it was the foreign characters in my last name the N with a ' that triggers it as I do not have that in my work email,my last name is hard enough to spell without the complication of Polish letters LOL.

But with Tom having a similar issue as myself it looks more like it is just the greenkeys list not liking GMAIL in general.

JD
Sent from my GMAIL.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 11:29 PM gil baudot.net<http://baudot.net> <gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>> wrote:
Well, there is no "spam" analysis and action taken by the mailman system used by the greenkeys list.

There are indeed greenkeys "bounces" (much to the chagrin of some folks who seem to get bounced more than others) that suspend your account after a certain amount of delivery rejections, or something.  I have little control over the automated bounce system, but I do manually re-activate an account when someone lets me know a user is on hold.  Here is an excerpt from the system:

"
These policies control the automatic bounce processing system in Mailman. Here's an overview of how it works.

When a bounce is received, Mailman tries to extract two pieces of information from the message: the address of the member the message was intended for, and the severity of the problem causing the bounce. The severity can be either hard or soft meaning either a fatal error occurred, or a transient error occurred. When in doubt, a hard severity is used.

If no member address can be extracted from the bounce, then the bounce is usually discarded. Otherwise, each member is assigned a bounce score and every time we encounter a bounce from this member we increment the score. Hard bounces increment by 1 while soft bounces increment by 0.5. We only increment the bounce score once per day, so even if we receive ten hard bounces from a member per day, their score will increase by only 1 for that day.

When a member's bounce score is greater than the bounce score threshold<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_score_threshold>, the subscription is disabled. Once disabled, the member will not receive any postings from the list until their membership is explicitly re-enabled (either by the list administrator or the user). However, they will receive occasional reminders that their membership has been disabled, and these reminders will include information about how to re-enable their membership.

You can control both the number of reminders<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings> the member will receive and the frequency<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval> with which these reminders are sent.

There is one other important configuration variable; after a certain period of time -- during which no bounces from the member are received -- the bounce information is considered stale<http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_info_stale_after> and discarded. Thus by adjusting this value, and the score threshold, you can control how quickly bouncing members are disabled. You should tune both of these to the frequency and traffic volume of your list."

Sometime it seems like the mailman system used by greenkeys is as old as some of our machines, though less well-behaved.

fyi, gil

________________________________
From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>> on behalf of John, W9DDD <w9ddd at tapr.org<mailto:w9ddd at tapr.org>>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2022 7:43 PM
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem

Checking the greenkeys archive http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/

can tell you if the problem is going into the reflector or coming out.  Postings seem to show up in the archive fairly soon after being sent to the list.

---
----
The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
John, W9DDD

On 3/18/2022 9:18 PM, Doug Jackson wrote:
Hi Tom.

Spam bounce messages are literally 100% automatic and not created by a person.

You should never work on the basis that  a human being has taken offence.  They are literally machine generated based on an algorithm that looks at content coupled with source network and many many other factors.

Spam detection isn't moderation.  It's simply a seriously inexact artwork implemented in dumb logic.

Doug   VK1ZDJ

I hope tgat helps.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022, 12:51 pm Matthew Wagner, <mattwagner92597 at gmail.com<mailto:mattwagner92597 at gmail.com>> wrote:
Tom,

I received your message, so it did happen to get through to me. I appreciate it and will definitely take a look. Not sure about the spam filtering but I did get your message.

Much appreciated,
M. Wagner

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 21:46 joe duszynski <joeyd at northwest-denture.com<mailto:joeyd at northwest-denture.com>> wrote:
If this doesn't  bounce its the algorithm.

On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:34 PM Tom Hunter <tomhenryhunter at gmail.com<mailto:tomhenryhunter at gmail.com>> wrote:
 I tired to help put Mathew Wagner, Greenkeys bounced it  back as spam.

This is not the first time this has happened.

Does anyone else feel any of my messages are out of line?
If so, I will just read the mail, mind my own business and
quit trying to help others.

Tom   N3CRK
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