[GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem

Sat Mar 19 13:23:07 EDT 2022

I totally understand about "Clunky old email systems" I deal with a few
myself LOL.
What gets me is the moderation message... I never had the GMAIL in digest
mode
The original email I signed up with was joeyd at modempool.com but it no
longer exists due to buyouts and mergers.

On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:49 PM gil baudot.net <gil at baudot.net> wrote:

> No, it didn't bounce back to you -- you probably got a moderation message
> -- your account was on moderation, so yeah, that means your posts don't
> show up until I approve them, something I try to check once or twice a
> day.  Your other account was not on  moderation, so yes, posts pretty
> immediately.  I don't know why that other account was on moderation, but I
> removed moderation on that, so go to town.
>
> The only reason that accounts are on moderation is for folks who are in
> digest mode, so I can keep giant digest replies and incorrect subject lines
> from contaminating the archive and making it difficult to follow a thread.
> This is a clunky old email message system, but it is what it is.
>
> gil
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Joe Duszyński <joeduszynski1 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 19, 2022 9:00 AM
> *To:* Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net>
> *Cc:* gil baudot.net <gil at baudot.net>; Greenkeys <
> greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem
>
> Paul,
>
> ANYTIME I post to greenkeys with this email joeduszynski1 at gmail.com.
> It bounces back with a message similar to theses.
> After a few hours and sometimes a whole day it will get posted. I watch
> Autostart and the forum archive for it to show up which it eventually does.
>
> If i post it with my work account it will show up instantly.
>
> It is NOW 11:59am EDT I will post a similar email whit the other in a
> moment and you can see the difference in the forum archive.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 11:51 AM Paul Heller <paul0926 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> When you guys say it “bounced”, what do you mean?
>
> A few years ago there was a big discussion here and the conclusion was
> that Gmail was filtering out the received message because it was the same
> as the sent message. The return incoming message was filtered out by gmail,
> but not the outgoing message. It only happened with list type servers like
> greenkeys.
>
> It’s mad because you don’t really know if it actually went out (it always
> did). Our conclusion then was that you just had to have faith.
>
> Paul
> W2TTY
>
> ITTY: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8000/ITTY
> <HTTP://internet-tty.net:8000/ITTY>
> ITTY 100:  HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8010/ITTY100
> AUTOSTART: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8030/AUTOSTART
> <HTTP://internet-tty.net:8030/AUTOSTART>
> EUROPE: HTTP://INTERNET-TTY.NET:8040/EUROPE
> <HTTP://internet-tty.net:8040/EUROPE>
>
> On Mar 19, 2022, at 4:08 PM, Joe Duszyński <joeduszynski1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
> I would add Tom's problem and my problem both probably occur because of
> gmail.
> When I send to the list from my work email joeyd at northwest-denture.com
> it always directly posts never a problem BUT when I send from my Gmail it
> bounces 100%(pct) of the time.  This is evidenced by my two posts from the
> work account and then the post from the gmail showing up at different times
> the work email was instant the gmail posted whenever whatever intervention
> took place. I do not prefer to use my work email for Greenkeys but it let
> me know that the issue was not the content but more likely that it didn't
> like something about the email account.
>
>
> Here is the kicker to all this. Google's mail runs my work email.
>
> I originally thought it was the foreign characters in my last name the N
> with a ' that triggers it as I do not have that in my work email,my last
> name is hard enough to spell without the complication of Polish letters LOL.
>
> But with Tom having a similar issue as myself it looks more like it is
> just the greenkeys list not liking GMAIL in general.
>
> JD
> Sent from my GMAIL.
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 11:29 PM gil baudot.net <gil at baudot.net> wrote:
>
> Well, there is no "spam" analysis and action taken by the mailman system
> used by the greenkeys list.
>
> There are indeed greenkeys "bounces" (much to the chagrin of some folks
> who seem to get bounced more than others) that suspend your account after a
> certain amount of delivery rejections, or something.  I have little control
> over the automated bounce system, but I do manually re-activate an account
> when someone lets me know a user is on hold.  Here is an excerpt from the
> system:
>
> "
> These policies control the automatic bounce processing system in Mailman.
> Here's an overview of how it works.
>
> When a bounce is received, Mailman tries to extract two pieces of
> information from the message: the address of the member the message was
> intended for, and the severity of the problem causing the bounce. The
> severity can be either *hard* or *soft* meaning either a fatal error
> occurred, or a transient error occurred. When in doubt, a hard severity is
> used.
>
> If no member address can be extracted from the bounce, then the bounce is
> usually discarded. Otherwise, each member is assigned a *bounce score* and
> every time we encounter a bounce from this member we increment the score.
> Hard bounces increment by 1 while soft bounces increment by 0.5. We only
> increment the bounce score once per day, so even if we receive ten hard
> bounces from a member per day, their score will increase by only 1 for that
> day.
>
> When a member's bounce score is greater than the bounce score threshold
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_score_threshold>,
> the subscription is disabled. Once disabled, the member will not receive
> any postings from the list until their membership is explicitly re-enabled
> (either by the list administrator or the user). However, they will receive
> occasional reminders that their membership has been disabled, and these
> reminders will include information about how to re-enable their membership.
>
> You can control both the number of reminders
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings>
>  the member will receive and the frequency
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval>
>  with which these reminders are sent.
>
> There is one other important configuration variable; after a certain
> period of time -- during which no bounces from the member are received --
> the bounce information is considered stale
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/admin/greenkeys/bounce?VARHELP=bounce/bounce_info_stale_after>
>  and discarded. Thus by adjusting this value, and the score threshold,
> you can control how quickly bouncing members are disabled. You should tune
> both of these to the frequency and traffic volume of your list."
>
>
> Sometime it seems like the mailman system used by greenkeys is as old as
> some of our machines, though less well-behaved.
>
>
> fyi, gil
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net <
> greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> on behalf of John, W9DDD <
> w9ddd at tapr.org>
> *Sent:* Friday, March 18, 2022 7:43 PM
> *To:* greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [GreenKeys] Greenkeys problem
>
>
> Checking the greenkeys archive http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> can tell you if the problem is going into the reflector or coming out.
> Postings seem to show up in the archive fairly soon after being sent to the
> list.
>
> ---
> ----
> The above comments or recommendations are SWAG. Use at your own risk.
> John, W9DDD
>
> On 3/18/2022 9:18 PM, Doug Jackson wrote:
>
> Hi Tom.
>
> Spam bounce messages are literally 100% automatic and not created by a
> person.
>
> You should never work on the basis that  a human being has taken offence.
> They are literally machine generated based on an algorithm that looks at
> content coupled with source network and many many other factors.
>
> Spam detection isn't moderation.  It's simply a seriously inexact artwork
> implemented in dumb logic.
>
> Doug   VK1ZDJ
>
>
>
> I hope tgat helps.
>
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022, 12:51 pm Matthew Wagner, <mattwagner92597 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> I received your message, so it did happen to get through to me. I
> appreciate it and will definitely take a look. Not sure about the spam
> filtering but I did get your message.
>
> Much appreciated,
> M. Wagner
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022, 21:46 joe duszynski <joeyd at northwest-denture.com>
> wrote:
>
> If this doesn't  bounce its the algorithm.
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 9:34 PM Tom Hunter <tomhenryhunter at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  I tired to help put Mathew Wagner, Greenkeys bounced it  back as spam.
>
> This is not the first time this has happened.
>
> Does anyone else feel any of my messages are out of line?
> If so, I will just read the mail, mind my own business and
> quit trying to help others.
>
>
> Tom   N3CRK
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> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
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>
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>
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> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
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> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
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>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
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>
>
>
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>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool: https://teletype.net/gksearch
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive: http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to w9ddd at tapr.org
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> >>> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
> >>> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
> >>> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
> >>> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to joeduszynski1 at gmail.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>
> Jordan Spencer Cunningham's GreenKeys Search Tool:
> https://teletype.net/gksearch
>
> 2002-to-present greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/pipermail/greenkeys/
>
> 1998-to-2001 greenkeys archive:
> http://mailman.qth.net/archive/greenkeys/greenkeys.html
>
> Randy Guttery's 2001-to-2009 GreenKeys Search Tool:
> http://comcents.com/tty/greenkeyssearch.html
>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to paul0926 at comcast.ne
>
>
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