[GreenKeys] Old Airfields

Mon Jan 27 13:20:56 EST 2020

I had a good chat with the Tribal officer, he was on the Ranger side of opps, the other was the police side.  Intel whos corporate office is litterally across the street now, not seen on google earth because its so new, wants to lease the air field for private use and improvment, and was told no.  The nation has no interest to clean it up or rebuild it or lease it.  They also dont grant permission to requestors to go there.  I saw thw site on a tv show, thats how i learned about it.  Would be an awesome place to set up a packet for hfpack opps.
They are more or less fine with leaving a cop there all weekend to cite people when its not even properly posted.   Its called an attractive nuisance in law, and most of the time, cops wont cite trespassing on the first encounter even when there are signs, this from a LEO friend i spoke with immediately following the incident.  He called the whole thing entrapment and has a negative opinion of the department issuing citations when they know its not even properly posted.
It would also be a neat site for rc airplane folk...
so if you have a drone, you could fly line of site from the public road 1/4 mile over and film the stuff and then return without trespassing since i doubt they own airspace and there are not any no drone signs anywhere.
Regards all
Rich Johnson
KI6EZA

www.RichardSJohnson.net

"Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms"
Thomas Jefferson
________________________________
From: Gil Smith <gil at baudot.net>
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 9:52:01 AM
To: Richard Johnson <killroy321 at hotmail.com>; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
Subject: RE: [GreenKeys] Old Airfields

Wow, what's the chance of that!  I always thought it would be a fun place to launch a balloon, with the old planes nearby.  Would be great ascent footage.  I would ask the tribal police for permission.

gil

gil smith, AF7EZ
greenkeys moderator
gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Old Airfields
From: Richard Johnson <killroy321 at hotmail.com<mailto:killroy321 at hotmail.com>>
Date: Mon, January 27, 2020 7:48 am
To: "greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>" <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>>

Haha Gil, I was just at the Gil river Airport yesterday.  And yes, there were two tribal police sitting there wating for me.  I was not cited, curtesy from one veteran to another but everyone else was.  On the weekend they get 2-3 cars an hour driving in there.  He let me go around and take my pictures, but no one else.
The path is not posted, you dont pass through any sings to get there, all the posted signs are set up to protect the crop fields.  The citations wont hold up in a court but you still have to show up and that is their point, make it difficult for you.  Great to see the stuff.
Regards all
Rich Johnson
KI6EZA

www.RichardSJohnson.net<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.RichardSJohnson.net&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583496104&sdata=6zUfFFb0buWr5BF9i%2FvYBjd59%2BtLzV5OyQ2tMG%2F0e40%3D&reserved=0>

"Those who enjoy freedom must endeavor to preserve it."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms"
Thomas Jefferson
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From: greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net> <greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys-bounces at mailman.qth.net>> on behalf of Gil Smith <gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>>
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2020 11:11:52 PM
To: Sheldon Daitch <sheldondaitch at yahoo.com<mailto:sheldondaitch at yahoo.com>>; greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net> <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>>; groupsrichart at gmail.com<mailto:groupsrichart at gmail.com> <groupsrichart at gmail.com<mailto:groupsrichart at gmail.com>>
Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Old Airfields

Sheldon:  That was a fun site to peruse -- I peeked through the Arizona pages.  I used to live near what is currently called the Gila River Memorial Airport (on the GR Indian Reservation) where local urban explorers risk fines to go photograph the remaining decaying old planes and hangers.  I never knew the history and it was fun to see some pics of it from its origins as a WW2 training field.
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/AZ/Airfields_AZ_Phoenix_SE.htm#memorial<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airfields-freeman.com%2FAZ%2FAirfields_AZ_Phoenix_SE.htm%23memorial&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583506113&sdata=MyXInITAWNF0rx2VKDbZ6qDabVyyQerwRB7kLDG%2Ftxc%3D&reserved=0>

A caption on one of the pics says: "The only photo that has been located of an aircraft operating from Memorial Airport was a 5/5/82 photo of Lockheed L1649A-98 Starliner, N8083H...  At the time it was one of only 4 airworthy Starliners in the world."  I thought that plane looked like a Lockheed Constellation, and with a further read at Wikipedia I learned that the Starliner was an improved (and final) member of the Constellation lineage:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_L-1649_Starliner<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLockheed_L-1649_Starliner&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583506113&sdata=V5mYEkoCcTYxjn3z57LuE%2B8MdwrsUtFbPZGQI4vmLdU%3D&reserved=0>

And, it was interesting to see on that same page, a pic of a cosmetically-restored Starliner that now sits at the TWA Hotel at JFK airport -- it is N8083H, the one seen in the 1982 photo at Memorial airport:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Constellation_Starliner_Airplane_at_TWA_Hotel_JFK_Airport,_New_York_City_20190521-jag9889.jpg<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AConstellation_Starliner_Airplane_at_TWA_Hotel_JFK_Airport%2C_New_York_City_20190521-jag9889.jpg&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583516118&sdata=mcywe%2Bq5qhR0IMWzligVHIn0ZNgSJRtws3woLcZMKn8%3D&reserved=0>
I would love to see that if I ever get to JFK.

Even further back in time (70s) I also lived near Havasu Airpark (which also began as a WW2 airfield):
http://www.airfields-freeman.com/AZ/Airfields_AZ_W.htm#havasu<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airfields-freeman.com%2FAZ%2FAirfields_AZ_W.htm%23havasu&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583516118&sdata=PpwyHbKosG9v2Krjt4ITwQ9qbxZk040wchk7W%2B%2FkRPE%3D&reserved=0>
Robert McCulloch exploited Havasu (and also Fountain Hills) when he bought the Havasu land for something like a buck an acre, bought the London Bridge, dismantled/shipped/reassembled the bridge in Havasu, and started flying people from the east coast and Canada in the cold and snowy wintertime to sunny Arizona, to sell them home lots (originally flew them in Connies, so we come full-circle again). He had put in utilities, paved roads, platted off lots to sell, and built a chainsaw plant so folks could make minimum wage while they enjoyed the sun, many hours from decent shopping in Phoenix.

Anyway, I recall another of his adventures there, the J-2 Gyrocopter:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCulloch_J-2<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMcCulloch_J-2&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583526123&sdata=78os8jN56xP1ACBd6wh7424Wn%2BEUllcAfSFKKfWmSmw%3D&reserved=0>
These were pretty cool, and test-flew at the airpark often.

Thanks for the walk down memory lane.

gil

gil smith, AF7EZ
greenkeys moderator
gil at baudot.net<mailto:gil at baudot.net>

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [GreenKeys] Old Airfields
From: Sheldon Daitch via GreenKeys <greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>>
Date: Sat, January 25, 2020 7:53 pm
To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net<mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>, "groupsrichart at gmail.com<mailto:groupsrichart at gmail.com>"
<groupsrichart at gmail.com<mailto:groupsrichart at gmail.com>>

Changing the subject line -

Take a look at:

http://www.airfields-freeman.com<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airfields-freeman.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583526123&sdata=cJRPapPlgaEnz8O%2BVzTIUzCEjZRAkbrw2I8kNXuFBnI%3D&reserved=0>/

Sheldon

On Saturday, January 25, 2020, 08:06:33 PM EST, groupsrichart at gmail.com<mailto:groupsrichart at gmail.com> <groupsrichart at gmail.com<mailto:groupsrichart at gmail.com>> wrote:

The airfields with three runways were known as Class A airfields (they look like an A.) They were originated by the RAF during WWII and widely adopted by the U.S. Army Air Corps. There is a good description of a Class A airfield in this article.
https://www.asce.org/uploadedFiles/CE_Magazine/Home_Page/Content_Pieces/2018-11-history-lesson-paving-the-way-for-victory.pdf<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.asce.org%2FuploadedFiles%2FCE_Magazine%2FHome_Page%2FContent_Pieces%2F2018-11-history-lesson-paving-the-way-for-victory.pdf&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583536137&sdata=DfPA1hqWhg%2FOAOt6C7AWcXHkDPTkGxfj%2FYwjmNXUftU%3D&reserved=0>

You see variations of this in the U.S. often with just two crossed runways. Many current commercial airfields started out as USAAC airfields and will have two crossed runways in a V shape. One example is Wright Army Airfield at Fort Stewart near Savannah which is now co-inhabited by Mid-Coast Regional Airport.

Some of the reasons for the multiple runways are:
Operational safety for all types of aircraft of that vintage
The longest runway was usually oriented for aircraft to take off or land into the prevailing wind
The other runways allowed for operations to continue when the wind was blowing from other directions
Allowed aircraft to be dispersed around the field in the event of an enemy attack

There were hundreds of USAAC airfields constructed during WWII. You can find a list of them arranged by state on Wikipedia. Many of the articles contain photos of the airport configuration in the familiar V shape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Airfields_of_the_United_States_Army_Air_Forces_in_the_United_States_by_state<https://eur05.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCategory%3AAirfields_of_the_United_States_Army_Air_Forces_in_the_United_States_by_state&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cb16cd2a46eb646e0e6e408d7a351b267%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637157443583536137&sdata=lEe71qAmXhD7EPAifMtnwinGYyPnlgMEYkMXFDS2Mpg%3D&reserved=0>

73,

Tim WS4V

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