[GreenKeys] just bagged a heath TU off eplace good to go with H89 in disp...

Mon Nov 5 21:59:24 EST 2012

H89 I think the name was?

Also did I forget to CC my last message to the list?

Cheers.

On 5 November 2012 21:54,  <COURYHOUSE at aol.com> wrote:
> wow!   a  reference   book!  Thanks !
>
> what terminal was  heath  selling   with it at that  time?!?
>
> In a message dated 11/5/2012 7:43:46 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time,
> captainkirk359 at gmail.com writes:
>
> This is going to be a really "random" e-mail, as I'm writing it as I go...
>
>
> In terms of processors, the best for use in a H11 would probably be
> the 23 or 23+ -- the M8186 and M8189 to be specific; also called the
> KDF11-A and KDF11-B (respectively). This is because they work fine in
> either 18-bit or 22-bit backplanes, Q/Q or Q/CD.Though, in a Q/CD you
> MUST break the grant continuity lines, lest your cause the release of
> magic smoke on CD lines.
>
> In terms of processor though; the KDF11-A is only available either
> with no options, with the MMU, with the MMU and FPP, or with the MMU
> and CIS. The KDF11-B is available with the same options as the
> KDF11-A, as well as with having both the FPP and CIS along with the
> MMU. Essentially all of the KDF11-A modules have the MMU though, so
> nevermind those without an MMU (they are rare, and only really
> valuable as sellable oddities). There is also a special different
> version of the FPP. Namely the FPF11 which is actually built out of TI
> bitslice processors and is incredibly fast. It uses a cable from the
> board to the FPP socket on the KDF11 CPU board. The FPF11 beyond being
> incredibly fast, is also incredibly hard to find, and incredibly
> expensive when found because of its rarity.
>
> The FPF11 also takes up a full quad-wide space; so it's rather large.
> It however is also workable with both QBUS and UNIBUS machines (so the
> 11/23, 23+ and 24), that's because it doesn't take a look at the bus
> at all, and its edge connects are nothing but grant continuity card
> connects.
>
>
> The J-11 processors are quite a bit faster, but are geared better
> toward large 22-bitter systems rather then the smaller 18-bit H11. The
> 11/73 comes in two versions the dual wide and the quad-wide. The
> quad-wide does PMI memory as well as normal bus memory. There is no
> direct UNIBUS equivalent of the 11/73 though. Neither is there an
> equivalent for the "low end" 11/53. The 11/83 and 11/93 are basically
> better and faster versions of the quad-wide 11/73; they also have a
> bunch of parallel ports if I remember correctly. There is a UNIBUS
> equivalent of the 83 and 93 though. Namely the 84 and 94; which are a
> normal 83 or 93 paired with a QBUS-UNIBUS card.
>
> If you put a 73 or 53 with a QBUS-UNIBUS card, you do not get a 54.
> And you DEFINITELY do not get a 74. That's because the 11/74 is
> something completely different. Do you know of the best PDP-11 model
> the 11/70? Well the 11/74 was DEC's attempt at a multiprocessor system
> version of it. Could be configured at up to four parallel processors.
> (Or a single processor system.) It came with the CIS option. It was
> killed for the VAX. Because apparently DIBOL on the the CIS enabled
> 11/70 CPU outperformed the DIBOL on the VAX. Several production
> systems appeared, and in fact the internal DEC department responsible
> for RSX-11M/M+ had one of the quad processor machines -- running SMP
> capable RSX-11M+. Which by the way is normal RSX-11M+ with one set of
> build/sysgen options commented out on the normal distro tapes.
>
>
> The RQDX* controllers while they do speak to standard ST_412/ST-506
> disk drives require the attached diskette drive have the *PROPER*
> Shugart interface, so PC drives tend to not work on them. Also the
> RX50 5.25" diskette format is nothing like the normal 360K or 1.2M
> diskette formats. Though, the RX33 is apparently a normal 5.25" 1.2M
> diskette drive. I don't know if it was for the RQDX3 or DEC's RZQ*
> SCSI controllers.
>
>
> In terms of peripherals, the most desierable ones would probably be an
> RL01 or RL02 disk pack drive in all it's glory, with an RLV12
> controller (the RLV11 requires C/D interconnect and is two quad-wide
> boards. It also doesn't like 22b buses). Next would probably be the
> RXV11 and RX01 or RXV21 and RX02 8" diskette drives (the former being
> SSSD, the other being SSDD); some third party manufactueres made so
> called 'RX03" drives, being DSDD drives, which are supported by RT-11
> V4, kind of; using a driver build flag to enable dual sided diskette
> drives.
>
> You can also do well with an RXV11 or RXV21 controller without
> diskette drives attached. As there is a program to emulate the
> aforementioned diskette drives using the PC parallel port.
>
>
> Another "nice" peripheral to have would probably be a DRV11 parallel
> port card. Though some of them -- like the DRV11-J -- can become
> pretty expensive. They're quite nice if you want your '11 to control
> something. (Model train set perhaps?)
>
>
> Also, very popular are Ethernet controllers. But you have to be
> careful of what OS you are running if you acquire one. As some OSes
> require DECnet, others require TCP/IP, and some do both. Example would
> be RSTS/E which only runs DECnet/E; meanwhile 2.11BSD and
> Ultrix-11speak TCP/IP only; while RSX-11 now speaks DECnet and TCP/IP
> (due to hobbyists RSX now has TCP/IP). If you want the best solution
> for getting TCP/IP machines speaking to DECnet machines I'd suggest
> either a VAX (or VAX emulator) running VMS being a bridge. You can
> also use standalone Linux if you install that one DECnet package.
>
>
> A good terminal is a must of course. I suggest the VT-220 for
> compactness, or the VT-100 for the pure coolness. If you wanted try
> and get a VT_103 and combine your '11 and terminal in one unit. If you
> want graphics, get the VT-241 or VT-330; ReGIS/Tek graphics are always
> a cool demo.
>
>
> That's all I can think of for now though.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> CHristian
>
>
>
> On 5 November 2012 14:38,  <COURYHOUSE at aol.com> wrote:
>> this is all great info  many thanks !!!  feel free to ramble anytime !!
>> ----Ed
>>
>> In a message dated 11/5/2012 10:21:17 A.M. Alaskan Standard Time,
>> captainkirk359 at gmail.com writes:
>>
>> Umm no...
>>
>> The M8192 version of the 11/73 -- that is the *DUAL WIDE* version --
>> will work in an 18-bit backplane, if I remember correctly. It's the
>> M8190 -- the *QUAD WIDE* version -- that absolutely requires the C/D
>> interconnect for PMI memory.
>>
>> Of course, the M8190 is also the module number of the 11/83 and 11/93.
>> So some M8190s are more expensive then others. It's all dependent on
>> the appended letters to the M8190 module.
>>
>>
>> You really need to look at either the DEC Edited Option Module List or
>> one of the handy PDP-11 Field Guide files to see what the suffixed
>> letters mean. Since there's quite a price difference between a board
>> that is incapable of getting an FPU and one with an FPU and CIS
>> options.
>>
>>
>> Of course, there's also the memory modules one needs to know about. A
>> quad-wide PMI memory will *NOT* work in an 18-bit serpentine
>> backplane. A quad-wide or dual-wide QBUS memory will however -- if it
>> supports 18b addressing. (Some of the small memories are only 16b
>> addressing capable.)
>>
>>
>> The BA23 box -- which I think looks a bit ugly, I like the BA123 box
>> more, or the BA11 style box -- has a few Q22/CD slots at the top of
>> the backplane, and the rest is all Q22/Q22 serpentine. You'd put the
>> PMI memories *BEFORE* the CPU, and then the devices on the QBUS after
>> the CPU.
>>
>>
>>
>> More important information about the PDP-11's peripherals -- always,
>> always *ALWAYS* put an RQDX1 or RQDX2 controller as the very last
>> device on the bus; since they break the grant continuity chain. The
>> RQDX3 and RQDX4 are fine though.
>>
>> A good controller to acquire is an MSCP SCSI controller like the
>> CQD-220; because you can still "easily" acquire fifty-pin SCSI disks,
>> which are nice and small, and "reliable enough". Plus te SCSI disks
>> are nice and bit, and you could put things like BSD or RSX, or RSTS on
>> them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Any way, I'm rambling.
>> Cheers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 November 2012 13:20, Adrian Stoness <tdk.knight at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> u need a ba23 backplane for the 11/73
>>> h11 is not a ba23
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 12:15 PM, Christian Gauger-Cosgrove
>>> <captainkirk359 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah, will the 11/73 work in the H-11?
>>>>
>>>> The answer is "Maybe." It depends on whether the H11 does anything
>>>> "funky" with the -- at the time of the LSI-11/03 -- unused bus lines
>>>> that the 11/23 and 11/73 (and later 22-bit '11 CPUs) used for the
>>>> higher order address bits.
>>>>
>>>> It shouldn't since the H11 uses the actual straight from DEC LSI-11 CPU
>>>> board.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You will probably also want to invest in an MSV11-L RAM; or if you
>>>> feel very bored, wirewrap the backplane to 22-bit and invest in a 512K
>>>> or 1MB RAM board.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, it should be fine.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Christian
>>>>
>>>> On 5 November 2012 13:04,  <COURYHOUSE at aol.com> wrote:
>>>> > I will have to make a list  ...    due to it's prior owner I would
>>>> > suspect
>>>> > it is as loaded as can be.  I have the floppy drives but the   disks
>>>> > are
>>>> > roached ... I need to  find  some live media or a way to load and save
>>>> > some....tell me more....... oddly enough I wonder if the  ACE  video
>>>> > editor
>>>> > carcus  that has an  11/73  board in it would fly in this  H-11 unit!?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > In a message dated 11/5/2012 8:48:43 A.M. Alaskan Standard Time,
>>>> > captainkirk359 at gmail.com writes:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello Ed:
>>>> >
>>>> > What kind of boards are in the H11 by any chance?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > And have you considered trying to get the H11 up and running RT-11 by
>>>> > any chance? (All you need is a PC with a serial port and a second
>>>> > serial port on the H11. And patience. BUT NEVERMIND THAT!)
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Also, you considered trying to upgrade the H11's CPU from the godawful
>>>> > LSI-11 to a PDP-11/23 CPU instead?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Cheers,
>>>> > Christian
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>>>
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