[GreenKeys] 5 and 6 letter codes
weather
weather at surfsouth.com
Mon Jan 9 17:30:57 EST 2012
My .02
Most of the 5 number code I copied in the 60's and 70's was with strong signals from the South Florida station WBR-70. This was also known as CARMET. Carribean Meteorlogical Teletype. It originated from the U.S. Weather Bureau (now the National Weather Service) in Miami.
The 5 letter code (also known by weather-types as the synoptic code was used world-wide for universal exchange of weather data, as adopted by the WMO (World Meteorological Organization, out of Switzerland).
There was also much other plain language weather information. For a real weather geek (like me) seeing the reports from the Navy recon planes flying to Hurricanes and getting the data before it was "officially" released through the Hurricane Center was too cool. (Hey it was a simpler time!)
Thank goodness for HAM operators who took the time to encourage and educate young kids and bring much joy into the life of a 13 year old who had little else going on. A local ham (now silent) who didn't know me made sure I got a radio, TU, and first a model 14 tape printer and then (since it's been in discussion recently) yes, a giant-wide (I was told) model 12. I recall that the carriage moved as opposed to the type basket as on a 15. Noise, what noise. To ayoung kid it was music. Darn that ham...still is music. But alas, preaching to the choir here, huh.
As others mentioned there were lots of other 5 and 6 letter codes as well.
-----Original Message-----
>From: greenkeys-request at mailman.qth.net
>Sent: Jan 7, 2012 9:55 PM
>To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Subject: GreenKeys Digest, Vol 96, Issue 17
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading! (Jim Haynes)
> 2. Re: Model 12s (DR HOUSE)
> 3. Re: Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading! (DR HOUSE)
> 4. Re: Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading! (Bill)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 20:04:22 -0600 (CST)
>From: Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading!
>To: Keelan Lightfoot <keelan at grenander.com>
>Cc: Robert Laag <rlaag at pacbell.net>, greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.02.1201072001190.3175 at Frances.localdomain>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
>
>Well the general answer is "offline encryption" meaning that somebody
>encrypted the message into those groups using a separate machine, and
>then the message sending people transmitted the scrambled text as it
>was given to them. And at the receiving end the message was handed
>over to the crypto people to decrypt using another machine. It took
>a while before encryption was generally done online.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 20:13:46 -0600
>From: DR HOUSE <Packard42 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Model 12s
>To: Jim Haynes <jhhaynes at earthlink.net>
>Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <FF9EEAEF-71F6-45EA-8F3B-71AC255C93C2 at gmail.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
>Very well Jim,
>But history is important. It is also of note that the Model 12 was
>the first commercially
>successful teletypewriter. Being tried out by a railroad* but the
>first big customer was the Associated Press.
>The 12 I have in California has AP tags on it as does the 20 here in
>Ringwood.
>I guess I am preaching to the choir. Your comments are always greatly
>appreciated here.
>
>Best,
>Don
>* was it the Chicago & Alton RR?
>
>
>On 7 Jan 2012, at 6:44 PM, Jim Haynes wrote:
>
>It seems that the early amateur RTTY work was largely based on Model
>12s,
>using VHF, in the NYC area. I heard somewhere that the NYPD had
>replaced
>its Model 12s with more modern equipment around the end of WW-II because
>Teletype had quit making spare parts for the 12s. And Bob Weitbrecht
>W6NRM told of getting his first machine, a Model 12 RO, from a newspaper
>in the Los Angeles area; so I guess the press wire services also were
>using their 12s until the end of WW-II when they could get 15s and could
>no longer maintain the 12s.
>
>Except for their age and worn condition Model 12s were tolerable for VHF
>RTTY. When hams tried to use them on HF there were lots of problems
>with
>RFI. One solution was to use vacuum tubes to drive the printer magnets.
>There was also a vacuum tube modification for speed governed motors to
>reduce the RFI.
>
>But as soon as hams started getting better machines they dumped the
>Model 12s. Chief among the better machines were Model 26s, which the
>telephone
>companies started phasing out in the 1950s when Teletype was allowed to
>quit making spare parts for them. In the 1950s we weren't very
>interested
>in preserving history. And Model 12s were not really very nice machines
>to have. Aside from the RFI problems, and the distributors needing
>adjustment, they were made from typewriter parts and were pretty well
>beat to death by the time hams got them. I personally put a couple of
>M12 typing units into the garbage. They were given to me by Ray
>Morrison,
>and I had nothing but the typing units and observed that the bearings
>were
>extremely worn, so that parts flopped around.
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 20:26:30 -0600
>From: DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading!
>To: Robert Laag <rlaag at pacbell.net>
>Cc: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <55CB7A8E-9C0D-4BAE-8F97-D22AE371F969 at dls.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Bob,
>
>Five letter code groups were used by just about everyone. One reason
>was they got the maximum amount of information across public telegraph
>networks at the lowest possible cost. The second reason was that the
>code groups were meaningless unless you had a current decode table.
>Industry used this as well as the military. One of the most
>successful espionage efforts in history was the long standing VENONA
>operation the Soviet Union used from the 30s to the 70s for their
>spies to send secret messages to Moscow. A British intelligence
>officer and an American mathematician who could think in Russian
>figured it out or they might still be using it today. If you get a
>chance to see SECRETS, LIES, AND ATOMIC SPIES on PBS NOVA watch it.
>Our museum helped produce the segment. If you watch closely you can
>see my fingers on a M14 strip printer and our executive director's
>stomach next to an IBM card sorter. I have a first generation VHS
>tape sent to me by the director that I need to convert to DVD before
>the tape turns to noise. There is also a good book The VENONA PAPERS
>published by REGNERY
>
>Best,
>Don
>aka TTY MAN
>
>
>On 7 Jan 2012, at 7:32 PM, Robert Laag wrote:
>
>THIS BRINGS UP A SUBJECT FROM THE PAST...YEARS AGO THERE WERE MANY
>STRONG STATION HEAR HERE ON THE SHORT WAVE FREQS THAT SEEMED TO BE
>MESSAGE STATIONS... THEY WOULD TRANSMIT A HEADER IN PLAIN TEXT AND
>FOR THE MESSAGE CONTENTS IT WOULD BE 5 OR 6 NUMBER UPPER CASE GROUPS
>SEPARATED BY SPACES FOR THE DURATION OF THE MESSAGE... LIKE, 65834
>48390 66173 19785 AND SO ON... ANYWAY, THEN HOW DID THE MESSAGE GET
>UNSCRAMBLED I WONDER??? BOB
>
>--- On Sat, 1/7/12, DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net> wrote:
>
>From: DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net>
>Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading!
>To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Date: Saturday, January 7, 2012, 4:37 PM
>
>My thanks to Christian for this information...
>
>Begin forwarded message:
>
>From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove <captainkirk359 at gmail.com>
>Date: 7 January 2012 5:59:47 PM CST
>To: DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Interesting images and reading!
>
>Jerry Proc's site is quite the interesting read, I've browsed it many
>a time. It's a great reference for various crypto systems. If any one
>else is interested, John Savard has a good set of pages in his
>cryptographic compendium on telecipher machines:
>
>http://www.quadibloc.com/crypto/tele03.htm
>
>On 7 January 2012 17:21, DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net> wrote:
> >
> > <http://jproc.ca/crypto/rockex.html>
> > ______________________________________________________________
>
>______________________________________________________________
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>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sat, 07 Jan 2012 18:54:45 -0800
>From: Bill <bill at blcain.com>
>Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading!
>To: DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net>
>Cc: Robert Laag <rlaag at pacbell.net>, greenkeys at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <4F090575.4060709 at blcain.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>In the Navy, we used a KLB-47 crypto machine to produce this code and to
>decypher them. It used rotating drums that were set up with the code for
>the message. Can't remember if it was using the date-time-group or the
>first line of the message or both. (been a looooong time!) I remember
>that it took some time to type in the 5 letter code groups...you had to
>be real accurate...the 47 would then punch a tape and you would have to
>run it off on an ASR to get a copy. Then you had to type it onto a
>message form for distro. What a pain! If you typed the groups in
>wrong...guess what?...had to type them in again. Sometimes it was very
>easy to get lost as to where you were in the message. One knock on the
>crypto room door and you almost always had to start over. What a
>blessing when we switched over to covered broadcast. No more 47's.
>
>Bill Cain
>
>On 1/7/2012 6:26 PM, DR HOUSE wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>>
>> Five letter code groups were used by just about everyone. One reason
>> was they got the maximum amount of information across public telegraph
>> networks at the lowest possible cost. The second reason was that the
>> code groups were meaningless unless you had a current decode table.
>> Industry used this as well as the military. One of the most
>> successful espionage efforts in history was the long standing VENONA
>> operation the Soviet Union used from the 30s to the 70s for their
>> spies to send secret messages to Moscow. A British intelligence
>> officer and an American mathematician who could think in Russian
>> figured it out or they might still be using it today. If you get a
>> chance to see SECRETS, LIES, AND ATOMIC SPIES on PBS NOVA watch it.
>> Our museum helped produce the segment. If you watch closely you can
>> see my fingers on a M14 strip printer and our executive director's
>> stomach next to an IBM card sorter. I have a first generation VHS
>> tape sent to me by the director that I need to convert to DVD before
>> the tape turns to noise. There is also a good book The VENONA PAPERS
>> published by REGNERY
>>
>> Best,
>> Don
>> aka TTY MAN
>>
>>
>> On 7 Jan 2012, at 7:32 PM, Robert Laag wrote:
>>
>> THIS BRINGS UP A SUBJECT FROM THE PAST...YEARS AGO THERE WERE MANY
>> STRONG STATION HEAR HERE ON THE SHORT WAVE FREQS THAT SEEMED TO BE
>> MESSAGE STATIONS... THEY WOULD TRANSMIT A HEADER IN PLAIN TEXT AND
>> FOR THE MESSAGE CONTENTS IT WOULD BE 5 OR 6 NUMBER UPPER CASE GROUPS
>> SEPARATED BY SPACES FOR THE DURATION OF THE MESSAGE... LIKE, 65834
>> 48390 66173 19785 AND SO ON... ANYWAY, THEN HOW DID THE MESSAGE GET
>> UNSCRAMBLED I WONDER??? BOB
>>
>> --- On *Sat, 1/7/12, DR HOUSE /<k9tty at dls.net
>> <mailto:k9tty at dls.net>>/* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net <mailto:k9tty at dls.net>>
>> Subject: [GreenKeys] Fwd: Re: Interesting images and reading!
>> To: greenkeys at mailman.qth.net <mailto:greenkeys at mailman.qth.net>
>> Date: Saturday, January 7, 2012, 4:37 PM
>>
>> My thanks to Christian for this information...
>>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> From: Christian Gauger-Cosgrove <captainkirk359 at gmail.com
>> </mc/compose?to=captainkirk359 at gmail.com>>
>> Date: 7 January 2012 5:59:47 PM CST
>> To: DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net </mc/compose?to=k9tty at dls.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [GreenKeys] Interesting images and reading!
>>
>> Jerry Proc's site is quite the interesting read, I've browsed it many
>> a time. It's a great reference for various crypto systems. If any one
>> else is interested, John Savard has a good set of pages in his
>> cryptographic compendium on telecipher machines:
>>
>> http://www.quadibloc.com/crypto/tele03.htm
>>
>> On 7 January 2012 17:21, DR HOUSE <k9tty at dls.net
>> </mc/compose?to=k9tty at dls.net>> wrote:
>> >
>> > <http://jproc.ca/crypto/rockex.html>
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net
>> </mc/compose?to=GreenKeys at mailman.qth.net>
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> GreenKeys mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/greenkeys
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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