[FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)

[W4RP]

Good boy, Ed - I understood what you said and why.  2 seconds. Flat.

-----Original Message-----
From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net]
On Behalf Of W5TWR
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 5:00 PM
To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association
Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)

Good Boy, Bud!  I agree with you.  Don't inker with the Kernal.  Let some 
one who is coordinating the software maintain it so we maintain 
compatibility/connectivity.  Nuf said. I just got back from Winston-Salem 
today.  I need to check out my old 486 computer to see if it will run 
Linux.. do I go to Charley or Charley for the CD?  I am still anxious to get

started with this project and promise not to let our node go the route of 
Clermont.  73, Ed
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bud Thompson" <budt at cfl.rr.com>
To: "Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association" 
<fadca at mailman.qth.net>; "Jerald DeLong KD4YAL" <kd4yal at tampabay.rr.com>
Cc: "'Dave N4GMU'" <n4gmu at bellsouth.net>; <k4gbb at embarqmail.com>; "'Paul 
Kronenwetter'" <n2kiq at arrl.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 7:12 AM
Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)


> Jerry  -  So far as I can I was the only person to respond at all with
> comments to your original note:
>
>    Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode
>
> and so far as I can tell you were the only person to respond to my
> report which I re-titled
>
>    Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
> So, in the overall scheme of things there may not be anyone on the
> FADCA list other than the two of us who has enough interest to even
> comment.  That is valid reason for neither of us to spend much time on
> this thread if you are bailing out.  My interest is not in convincing
> you to do something you do not want to do.
>
> My interest is in building a local packet network for anyone who cares
> to use the WL2K SYSTEM for e-mail for EMCOMMs.  Local in my case is
> FADCA District #5 covering five counties in E Central Florida.  In the
> process anyone who can get on packet can use the network for anything
> they want to.  We have two County EOCs and five City EOCs on the
> network 24/7 using WL2K clientwear and providing TelPac Gateways so
> there is valid and rewarding reason for me to continue - in addition
> to my being retired - what else would I do with my time but bug K4GBB
> with Linux stuff?  (When Linux /FPAC gets stable I'll have to find
> something else to bug Charlie with.)
>
> Simply providing SMTP mail using ham radio to get to an internet
> server does not meet my requirement as the WL2K is a SYSTEM (operative
> word)   that we have been promoting around the Land.  To be sure, it
> has caught on in other places more than in Florida!  If the local
> network can link to others in the state by RF (we now go into District
> 7 to the north by RF and District 3 via internet in the south)  - good
> deal - but they will have to be COMPATIBLE.  That is why I have no
> interest in moving away from the legacy ROSE/FPAC protocol at this
> time since that is all that anyone else is using (or was) on the
> original Florida Layered Packet Network.  Frankly I could care less
> about linking with FRANCE as a requirement for a Local Network  - a
> neat thing to do - but anyone can telnet around the world or use VOIP
> to get DXCC!  Don't get me wrong - w/o the "French Connection"  we
> have, we would not be working with Linux FPAC - that is from where
> much of the Linux grunt work comes.
>
> It is a case of 'Going home with the one that brung you to the Dance.'
> No sense changing horses in the middle of the dance floor.
>
> Adding to this complex state of affairs - It will be a long time
> before Linux-based clientware is accepted for wide-spread EMCOMMs use
> to the extent that Windows clientware is. - A fact we have to deal
> with.
>
> Of course we could build a Local network using faster and more modern
> protocols - but how can we sell something more expensive (and likely
> complex) when we can't sell something that should be relatively
> familiar and cheap?  Remember - only you and I have made any
> response/contribution to this thread in five days with perhaps 30 or
> more people getting the e-mail through the reflector.
>
> The sites in which I am involved could all support something new -
> such as D-STAR or P25 - or something yet to be proposed.  If interest
> and funds were available the sites would be ready to go.  If a site is
> Linux FPAC then the computer will be there if needed for the change
> over - to what ever new or legacy OS is required.  Additional antennas
> for backbones on different bands than 9.6kb could be added, etc, etc.
> Until then an analog two meter radio of almost any vintage and a
> $30-$50 TNC from a hamfest or the bedroom closet is all the hardware a
> budding user needs to use the Local network and gain access to WL2K
> Telpac Gateways or other services two, three, or four LANS away when
> needed.
>
>>> How many more years Bud.
>
> Who knows?  I've been working on this project here since 1999 when I
> inherited management of two nearly defunct ROSE switches (Orlando and
> DAB) and we now have a network from Melbourne through to
> Jacksonville - albeit not without holes as reported.  The Jacksonville
> group may soon add two sites westward toward Gainesville where there
> is a new EMCOMMs group now starting out - and that group and the Ocala
> Group to the south are in communications - though not yet on
> backbones.  The next group that is making plans is in The Villages
> and - once operational - could link to Lake County - which is not
> officially on the network, but has a Telpac and X1j node hanging
> around the Orlando LAN - oppps... I just described the N. Florida Loop
> from Orlando through DeLand to DAB to STA to OPK to Middleburg, to
> Keystone to Gainesville to Ocala to The Villages to Eustis to Deland
> and back to Orlando.
>
>>Also as far as I know there are only 3 people in our community that
>>can even maintain a Fpacnode and I am one of them.
>
> That is one reason I'd like to see you keep on keep'n on - Linux Gurus
> with interest in Ham Radio at the level needed for these upgrades are
> hard to find.  Every Ham Community needs at least one - and where we
> have a Ham Community that wants to support a switch but has no Guru -
> we need Linux Gurus from elsewhere to pitch in and work with them via
> the internet.
>
> While there are not yet a horde of Packet Users in the sense of the
> 80s and early 90s - there is interest in EMCOMMs that will bring more
> people (back) to the mode.  Telpac  nodes dot the state - and we just
> had a coordination application for one in Cape Coral where there is
> not one.  About 1600 Saturday I checked the active Telpac map at
> http://www.winlink.org/positions/telpacpos.aspx and found the
> following in Florida:
>
> 30 Telpac Nodes - Green,  Yellow, and Red
>  2 that are West Canadian that are miss-plotted (and have been for
>  months!)
>  3 that have not reported to the internet in the past 6 hours (RED)
>  2 that have reported within 6 hours but are nearly 6 hours old
> (Yellow)
>  23 that are "current"  Green.
>
> This morning (0550)  all are current except for three Red.
>
> I know of one more  Telpac Gateway - at the DeBary EOC - that has been
> off since Thursday due to the EOC computers being put on a different
> server.  I got a phone call from the IT guy yesterday who said he
> would be at the EOC today (Sunday) finishing the change over and will
> call me so we can get me back with Remote Desktop Access to the Ham
> computer there.
>
>>> How many more years Bud.
>
> I often think about that - but at my age I've got at least five more
> and maybe ten more years to play with this.
>
> I'm enjoy it.
>
> 73,
>
> bud N0IA
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jerry DeLong" <kd4yal at tampabay.rr.com>
> To: "'Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association'"
> <fadca at mailman.qth.net>
> Cc: "'Paul Kronenwetter'" <n2kiq at arrl.net>; <k4gbb at embarqmail.com>;
> "'Dave N4GMU'" <n4gmu at bellsouth.net>
> Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 14:26
> Subject: RE: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>
>
>>
>> Bud, and the rest of the Group,
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: fadca-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:fadca-
>>> bounces at mailman.qth.net]
>>> On Behalf Of bud Thompson
>>> Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 7:45 AM
>>> To: Florida Amateur Digital Communication Association
>>> Cc: Paul Kronenwetter; k4gbb at embarqmail.com; Dave N4GMU
>>> Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fpacnode (E. Central Florida Report)
>>
>>
>>> The FPAC problems indicated by KD4YAL with upgrading Kernels and
>>> FPAC, while not trivial, do not adversely affect the existing E.
>>> Central Florida network above.
>>
>> When working on a *SHARED* network changes can have adverse affect
>> to your neighbors. In this case we can see a fragmented network
>> which
>> has really been the case for a number of years.
>>
>>
>>> From a Linux/FPAC perspective the Melbourne, Orlando, DeLand, and
>>> OPK sites are nominally stable - but only because we have not taken
>>> them to all the various new levels of Linux/FPAC because of the
>>> upgrading problems.
>>
>> By not upgrading your node, you then lack the ability to route
>> redundant
>> adjacent neighbors. Which is very important if you want to prevent
>> the Network from being fragmented.
>>
>>
>>> However, because we do have mix/match levels the White Pages
>>> routing
>>> from Orlando THRU DeLand to DAB does not work.  WP routing works
>>> from
>>> Orlando to DeLand and from DeLand to DAB on up the network but not
>>> when originated at Orlando!  Manual routing throughout the network
>>> has not been affected.
>>
>> I started using ROSE in 1996 as an end user back when you could
>> connect from East coast to the West coast daily.
>>
>> Thanks to Wyatt and Doug!
>>
>> As an end user without having a *PHONE BOOK* it's not an easy task
>> finding
>> your way around a ROSE network. WP has help with this some what but
>> it is
>> not as easy as a simple "telnet kd4yal.ampr.org".
>>
>>> This does not mean that all is perfect on this E Central Florida
>>> network - it is certainly in test phase and is a work in progress!
>>
>> I know we are HAMS and part of that is to experiment but how long
>> do you experiment before saying there must be a better way. The
>> Florida ROSE network has been developing for how many years now?
>>
>>
>>> Here is why the problems with upgrading LINUX/FPAC is not adversely
>>> affecting this part of the network - Upgrading continues using
>>> K4GBB's test sites and a 2nd Orlando computer here on my computer
>>> LAN.  By using these sites for evaluating upgrades the active sites
>>> above are not adversely affected.  We won't be upgrading any of our
>>> sites or converting any of our sites until LINUX/FPAC stability is
>>> assured.
>>
>> How many more years Bud.
>>
>>
>>> All this upgrading of Linux/FPAC in E. Central Florida is being
>>> driven by Charles Schuman K4GBB who is in contact with other
>>> Linux/FPAC developers.  I have all the confidence it this process -
>>> it may just take a little time.
>>
>> There is a developer this would be one person who like Charlie is
>> stretched pretty thin most of the time.
>>
>>
>>> All this E-Central Florida network has been a team effort (I'm a
>>> hardware person not a Linux person!)  N3PPC and I have been
>>> directly
>>> involved in all these sites for getting hardware ready and
>>> installed.
>>> W5SMM and W4RP in Melbourne, N4WQK in DAB, KF4MX in STA, and WD4SEN
>>> in OPK have been local movers and shakers to keep sites warm.
>>> N2KIQ
>>> manages the W4MCO-10 Telpac node, and recently N4GMU in Deland has
>>> been pitching in with the three sites here in
>>> Volusia County
>>
>> Sugar coated or not, ROSE is really not the way to build a community
>> Network for HAM radio. I may not be an expert but I can see what
>> works and
>> what doesn't. I also have taken the time to compare other
>> technologies that
>> do work and work well.
>>
>> Both the Eastern US and Western US have good example of what works.
>> If you were to take the time to do a little research the answer,
>> is obvious.
>>
>> I have even had the privilege to work with some of the gentlemen
>> that built
>> the HAM radio networks from Eastern US some of which now retire in
>> Florida.
>>
>> Maybe we could learn from this. or not. we could just keep isolating
>> our self from the rest of the world, well except France of coarse.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards, Jerry DeLong, KD4YAL
>>
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