[FADCA] KISS - at first!

[bud thompson]

See my comments below..

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <wchast at utilpart.com>
To: <fadca at mailman.qth.net>; <k4gbb at earthlink.net>
Cc: <dickfess at juno.com>; <ccrook at cfl.rr.com>; <kf4vrs at hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 14:21
Subject: RE: [FADCA] KISS - at first!

<snip>

Chuck wrote:

>I am probably going to get rocks tossed at me but here is a idea that
> you might contemplate. If it can be done in Windows then perhaps it is
> the way to go, but there are several CD based LINUX demos out there
> Knoppix, Mepis, and others come to mind. (you can google on any of
> them and you will get the web site) These CD images appear to run on
> just about anything I have so far been able to pop them into. Indeed
> there is a Knoppix version that is amateur radio inclined, maybe the
> trick is to do a CD and run the windows piece under WINE and use the
> common brower interfaces like Netscape Mozilla or even IE under WINE
> that would take care of the problem, you just burn the CD set it up
> to where it ask for the call sign/address when the apps are started
> and then it can set there and run off of the CD perhaps writing to a
> HD the message stuff so it is there for posterity, or stick a CF card
> in the machine and use that as the capture place. If this is done
> right it would allow the windows piece to continue to operate without
> trying to find people to port it to Linux and at the same time if it
> was on a CD that could be put in a machine and started up the way
> the above demo CD's work you would have something that would not
> demand anything more than the ability to stick the CD in the machine
> and start the whole thing up.
>
> I see where both of you are headed, and both have a good reason to
> be where you are. Indeed there are a lot of people out there that
> if you ask them to upgrade a PC they are going to go off into the
> weeds but if you can give them a CD and tell them to run it when we
> need emergency activity, that may be the way to bridge this issue.
>
> Charlie, the idea that Bud and the boys are pushing takes care of
> a issue we have at shelters, we see it here in Hillsborough Co, there
> are not enough hams to do all of the radio stuff, if you can set some
> shelter person down and let them enter and read e-mail just like they
> are used to doing at home then you have just freed up the ham to do
> ham type stuff such as making sure radios work or setting up RF gear
> and meeting the letter of the law. You could even have the ham set
> up the RF and put it under lock and key, the traffic people just enter
> the messages and they are sent under control of a control point so
> that takes the need to have a control operator at the shelter out
> of the issue.
>
> Bud,
> Charilie is right. There are a lot of people that are willing but
> they just do not have the $$ to upgrade a machine, it sounds like
> peanuts but to some fixed income snowbird who counts the coins in
> order to be able to have a "reasonable" existance, the cost to up-
> grade is like a tax (no wonder it is called the MS tax sometimes)
> so what we need to do is figure out how to meet the two halfway.
>
> I think that the Linux CD with the Windows emulator could take
> care of this nicely. I guess I really need to set down and set
> up a full blown system and then see how I can get it to run under
> one of the emulators, get it into one of the bootable CD systems
> and we would be able to copy the things as fast as the burners
> could burn them hand them out at hamfest and put the ISO images
> on line.
>
> Now the question is, can we do such a thing with Windows or do
> we get into serious issues of copyright with the OS? If not then
> Can we have a bootable Windows CD that just ask the right questions
> and runs on the user computer without having to install on the HD
>
> If you want to see what I am talking about go to one of the CD demo
> pages, or do a google on 'linux demo cd'
>
> Chuck Hast
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To paraphrase my flight instructor;
> "the only dumb question is the one you DID NOT ask resulting in my going
> out and having to identify your bits and pieces in the midst of torn
> and twisted metal."
>
>


Deltona
Monday Sept 13 1710E

Chuck - Yes here are some rocks...

Frankly these past two storms which kept me home on generator duty and not 
avaialble for a tactical assignment have moved me to a different place . . . 
an epiphany of sorts . . .so forgive me if I don't feel there is time or ham 
resources available to mix/match all this stuff.  If the served agencies 
need/want our services. (yet to be determined, eh?). it must be vanilla all 
the way - a ham volunteer or a client worker must be able to move from a 
Jacksonville assignment to a Punta Gorda assignment - hook up to the e-mail 
ham network and get down to business.  The common thread for this  right now 
is Windows and Outlook Express.  Is it not LINUX, it is not a DOS 
application, nor anything else that is not presently common place in the 
government/business community.

So far as LINUX is concerned we have seen no rush to move the Layered 
Network switches to FPAC LINUX though we have discussed that seriously and 
with interest for several years and it may yet really be the way to go... 
LINUX buffs would say so.  Any of us who are managing FPAC switches are more 
technially interested (or is that interested in technical stuff) than 
others, but we have not taken the LINUX step from DOS yet.  How can we 
expect the average ARES guy who won't or can't upgrade to Win2000 or XP 
start messing with LINUX for his applications? Shall we have some LINUX and 
some Windows applications  there for our ham volunteer and client worker to 
face from assignment to assignment?

If we can't get the basic ham community to upgrade from Win95/98/ME to 
WinXP - that not only means they can't afford it, but may also mean they 
have no other (non ham) use for the newer Windows OS... This may also mean 
they are not as technically interested (or is that interested technically) 
so spend their money (and time/interest) elsewhere.  I'm not a fisherman, so 
I would not spend $5 on fishing gear, nor the time to go fishing.

We must rememer that some of the resistance among ARES hams is the need for 
a Win2000/XP laptop for the server to go tactical... that is a separate 
issue from simply 'upgrading' if one has no laptop at all.

[One of the main ARESCOM /NTS leaders was still running Win3.1 last October 
when I first started educating him.  I don't know if he has upgraded yet.]

Allow me this - few hams who are 'non technial' types are also non LINUX 
types.. It seems to me that LINUX requires a more technially-inclinded 
person than does Windows which has been generally dumbed down for the 
masses - and our clients are among the latter group.

Now.. we may find a few really technically-oriented hams that are 
LINUX-inclined and want to work on ARES stuff - Great.   Bring them on for 
call outs as it is good to have technically-oriented hams available.  They 
can also train others who may not be able to afford a windows upgrade.. 
Bring them on.  Let's not let this wane like our conversion from DOS to FPAC 
switches has.  However - If the Ham Radio Server computer they are running 
at a tactical site is using LINUX,  all interface between that server and 
the Windos-based client comptuers must be no different that when the server 
is running Win2000/XP.

As for putting ANYTHING on user computers - I can't imagine that will be 
generally acceptable, must less allowable in my lifttime. (I plan on living 
a long time!)  Just getting a typical user (county employee, Red Cross 
worker, sheriff's rep) to add a ham radio e-mail account to his/her laptop 
may be next to impossible. Most will not know how and will be reluctant to 
let someone else do the work.  However we must continue selling the concept 
of e-mail over ham radio w/o the internet so they will "get it."

So much for my rocks.

> I think that the Linux CD with the Windows emulator could take
> care of this nicely. I guess I really need to set down and set
> up a full blown system and then see how I can get it to run under
> one of the emulators, get it into one of the bootable CD systems
> and we would be able to copy the things as fast as the burners
> could burn them hand them out at hamfest and put the ISO images
> on line.

Ah.. great - I will volunteer to beta test that CD in my WinME laptop  and 
several of these standby DOS computers I have here that have CD ROM Drives. 
I can probably try it in a 100 MHZ computer - that should put it to the 
test.  I can't try it in my Win95 laptop as it doesn't have a CD ROM Drive!

bud N0IA

PS: By the way - we cannot count on 'snow birds' during hurricane 
season -they have all gone home!