[FADCA] KISS - at first!

[wchast at utilpart.com]

bud thompson wrote:
> My comments at the end of this original message:
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charles S Schuman" <k4gbb at earthlink.net>
> To: "FADCA - News Reflecter" <fadca at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:14
> Subject: [FADCA] KISS - at first!
> 
> 
>> In order for Telpac to gain precognition as a valuable tool for local
>> emergency groups it must be accessible from UHF/VHF with a reasonably
>> simple terminal program. Many operators do have TNC2s that can be
>> dragged out of the closet and fired up. Once the value of Telpac &
>> Paclink are realized the volunteer base can be convinced to upgrade
>> their equipment. 
>> 
>> Rick Wrote:
>> 
>> "The basic facts are: If you want modern and supported software like
>> Telpac, Paclink etc you have to bite the bullet and keep the
>> computers reasonably upgraded.  Win 95 is 10 years old it is just
>> not practical to develop and support free modern software that has
>> to run on computers and OS that are obsolete.  IF you want to run a
>> terminal program and type in all the data manually you can probably
>> stick with this older OS and code...but it is just too hard to try
>> and develop and support this code when computers and upgrades are so
>> cheap today." 
>> 
>> I have to agree with him, but The ARES/RACES volunteers who have to
>> be converted to packet are NOT going to be be enticed to "try" the
>> new technology If they have to put out $$$ to upgrade. In Marion and
>> especially Citrus county the AR population is mainly Snow Birds,
>> retirees on a fixed income, who are making do with their Old
>> equipment. 
>> 
>> Now give them a New tool that will work with their Old equipment. If
>> it proves to be invaluable.. they will somehow upgrade.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> FADCA mailing list
>> FADCA at mailman.qth.net
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
>> 
> 
> 
> Deltona, FL
> 
> For purposes of this comment, Client = served agency worker (i.e. Red
> Cross, shelter manager's assistant, Health Department worker, ESFs
> 
> Comment-
> 
> Inside a last mile -
> 
> The value of the new e-mail over ham radio system is seamless (and
> fully automatic) end-to-end e-mailing between clients of ham radio
> e-mail servers where one or the other client is inside a last mile. 
> Another major value is for a ham radio operator to send seamless
> end-to-end e-mails for EMCOMMs purposes without a direct internet
> connection.  The fully automatic part means the client(s) is using a
> standard familiar e-mail client to edit/send/receive e-mail messages.
> 
> There is virtually no added value over written (NTS) messaging
> provided by the system if a client must depend on the ham radio
> operator to send the information/e-mail file employing a conventional
> terminal program using keyboard and up/loading files techniques
> through a Telpac node or to a PMBO. 
> 
> "converted to packet..."
> 
> While there may be some value for a packet-experienced ham who is
> using a terminal program/keyboarding/uploading files to use the
> system, the ham who has to drag his TNC2 out of the closet (i.e.
> can't find the radio to TNC cables, has virtually no experience using
> terminal programs and packet radio) simply won't be able to do it! 
> He/she will, however be able to use a familiar e-mail client such as
> Outlook, Outlook Express, Eudora, Netscape, etc.
> 
> As for spending $$$ to upgrade -   I just this morning tested out two
> OLD KAMs (pre KAME and KAM+) for a friend.  The one with EPROM
> version 5.0 works just fine with AGW PE/ Paclink AGW/Winlink AGW. 
> The one with EPROM  version 
> 2.5 did not (It probably doesn't have KISS mode or I don't know how
> to put it in KISS.)  At hamfests these are throw-away items.  Since
> Kantronics no longer supports that OLD KAM, there is nothing wrong
> with burning an EPROM for updating.  The source code is available
> from Kantronics. 
> 
> Since these back-to-back disasters here , and we were not beyond Beta
> Testing our system - we did not have many clients actually geared up
> to use the system (i.e. client computers on a LAN with the Ham Radio
> Server computer)... I've got Lessons Learned - -
> 
> We must gather up those few hams who are interested and will spend
> the $$$ to set up a Win2000 or XP laptop for tactical use.  This may
> be an 'elite' group since there is money involved (though I really
> think it is not all that much of a problem for the dedicated)... This
> group will learn a lot about packet, networking, configuring Paclink
> AGW, configuring e-mail clients for additional (tactical) accounts,
> etc..  Once an ARES group has three or four folks who are leading
> like this, others will follow and this leadership group will - lead
> the way. 
> 
> After these back-to-back disasters - this is my personal goal - to
> get as many folks to get a tactical e-mail server working as possible
> - after we get a bunch of TelPacs on their respective LANs.

I am probably going to get rocks tossed at me but here is a idea that
you might contemplate. If it can be done in Windows then perhaps it is
the way to go, but there are several CD based LINUX demos out there
Knoppix, Mepis, and others come to mind. (you can google on any of
them and you will get the web site) These CD images appear to run on
just about anything I have so far been able to pop them into. Indeed
there is a Knoppix version that is amateur radio inclined, maybe the
trick is to do a CD and run the windows piece under WINE and use the
common brower interfaces like Netscape Mozilla or even IE under WINE
that would take care of the problem, you just burn the CD set it up
to where it ask for the call sign/address when the apps are started
and then it can set there and run off of the CD perhaps writing to a
HD the message stuff so it is there for posterity, or stick a CF card
in the machine and use that as the capture place. If this is done
right it would allow the windows piece to continue to operate without
trying to find people to port it to Linux and at the same time if it
was on a CD that could be put in a machine and started up the way
the above demo CD's work you would have something that would not
demand anything more than the ability to stick the CD in the machine
and start the whole thing up.

I see where both of you are headed, and both have a good reason to
be where you are. Indeed there are a lot of people out there that
if you ask them to upgrade a PC they are going to go off into the
weeds but if you can give them a CD and tell them to run it when we
need emergency activity, that may be the way to bridge this issue.

Charlie, the idea that Bud and the boys are pushing takes care of
a issue we have at shelters, we see it here in Hillsborough Co, there
are not enough hams to do all of the radio stuff, if you can set some
shelter person down and let them enter and read e-mail just like they
are used to doing at home then you have just freed up the ham to do
ham type stuff such as making sure radios work or setting up RF gear
and meeting the letter of the law. You could even have the ham set
up the RF and put it under lock and key, the traffic people just enter
the messages and they are sent under control of a control point so
that takes the need to have a control operator at the shelter out
of the issue.

Bud,
Charilie is right. There are a lot of people that are willing but
they just do not have the $$ to upgrade a machine, it sounds like
peanuts but to some fixed income snowbird who counts the coins in
order to be able to have a "reasonable" existance, the cost to up-
grade is like a tax (no wonder it is called the MS tax sometimes)
so what we need to do is figure out how to meet the two halfway.

I think that the Linux CD with the Windows emulator could take
care of this nicely. I guess I really need to set down and set
up a full blown system and then see how I can get it to run under
one of the emulators, get it into one of the bootable CD systems
and we would be able to copy the things as fast as the burners
could burn them hand them out at hamfest and put the ISO images
on line.

Now the question is, can we do such a thing with Windows or do
we get into serious issues of copyright with the OS? If not then
Can we have a bootable Windows CD that just ask the right questions
and runs on the user computer without having to install on the HD

If you want to see what I am talking about go to one of the CD demo
pages, or do a google on 'linux demo cd'

Chuck Hast
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To paraphrase my flight instructor;
"the only dumb question is the one you DID NOT ask resulting in my going
out and having to identify your bits and pieces in the midst of torn
and twisted metal."


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