[FADCA] Fwd: Fw: [aprssig] Re: APRS broken

Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:17:03 -0700 (PDT)

Bud, I am glad you brought these points into the discussion.
I am not sure Rich has joined the FADCA mail, so I will copy
him separately your message.

I see some opportunities for sharing resources to ingetrate
thier infrastructure with regard to internet gateways and
tower locations and the infrastructure the FADCA system has
to support each other.  With FPAC and the capabilities of
the RF links as well as the internet, APRS, FPAC and WL2K
integrated into a complete system could be a strong
communication system.

Russ
On Sun, 21 April 2002, "bud Thompson" wrote

> 
> Deltona
> Sunday April 21 1235EDT
> 
> RELATED TOPIC
> 
> We are working to have WL2K packet stations
(ham-to-internet e-mail) set up
> as "BBS" type nodes on the FPAC network. We are also alpha
testing SMS
> (Small Message System) direct from packet to WL2K internet
server through
> the FPAC network (to the nearest FPAC switch that has 24/7
intent
> connection.)
> 
> The WL2K connection supports the Airmail E-mail client
(terminal program) or
> conventional NEXUS ham to email and also runs on HF 24/7. 
The SMS system
> would be for keyboarding directly into the WL2K
CMBO/Server in Cleveland to
> keyboard in SP or e-mail  messages or pick up (RM)
messages.  The SMS system
> leads to having palm-pilot-level computers and small
packet radios/tncs in
> tactical opns keyboarding directly into the internet-based
WL2K ham-to-email
> system.  Eventually SMS should be able to take uploaded
file transfers as
> well as keyboard sending.
> 
> Along with this we have discussed asking Tom to provide
FPAC source code to
> the WL2K development team.  I am not sure John WB4MOZ has
sent that request
> to Tom yet.
> 
> 73,
> 
> bud Thompson
> 386 479 6538 -this week on cell phone.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "n4xeo" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Cc: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 11:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [FADCA] Fwd: Fw: [aprssig] Re: APRS broken
> 
> 
> > At 07:41 AM 4/21/2002 -0700, [email protected]
wrote:
> >
> > Hi All
> >
> > I have also sent this to Rich so he can comment on it.
Rich you might want
> > to join the fadca reflector to see all replies. If you
need help let me
> know.
> >
> > >http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
> >
> > We had Tom working on the FPAC code to allow the passage
of aprs across
> the
> > fpac network (old rose). The work was stopped when we
couldn't get the
> aprs
> > folks to change their code to allow for the use of
routing across the
> > backbone. There has to be some kind of controlled access
to the system so
> > there wouldn't be so much traffic that it slows down the
network. My
> > thoughts would be to have the major cities or areas able
to connect or
> > something like that to keep 10,000 packets just being
repeated over and
> > over. The major hubs in a area can hear everything and
they would be the
> > only ones that would need to make the connections in the
area. Kind of
> like
> > the igates....You wouldn't want EVERYONE to run a Igate..
> >
> > I haven't talked with anyone in a while about the fpac
code, but the last
> I
> > remember was that the feature was added but not tested.
This is where the
> > APR folks come in.
> >
> > Rich,
> > If you can get some kind of code change to make it work
over a network
> then
> > we can see how our code changes might or might not work.
> >
> > Again from what I remember FADCA has welcomed this
concept but there has
> > been NO talking about it...
> >
> > I'll leave it here and see where this goes.
> >
> > Bill N4XEO
> >
> >
> > >Bill Gutherie sent me this. Thanks, Bill.
> > >
> > >I was out of town and put off reading the note until I
had a
> > >few minutes to digest what it was all about.  We have
two
> > >UHF frequencies set aside for APRS networking in
Florida. We
> > >also have a growing implemtation of FPAC and (finally)
we
> > >are working on upgrading our network links to 9.6 in
North
> > >East Florida between Jax and DAB.
> > >
> > >
> > >What do you think? I don't have the addresses of the
Florida
> > >APRS group but we do have some of thier devices in the
> > >database.
> > >
> > >Some of their supporters have highspeed internet
> > >connections.  We need to combine resources and
> > >infrastructure, can we do it?
> > >
> > >Russ
> > >
> > >------- Start of forwarded message -------
> > >
> > >Subject: Fw: [aprssig] Re: APRS broken
> > >From: "Bill Guthrie" <[email protected]>
> > >Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 21:26:27 -0400
> > >To: "Russell Oder" <[email protected]>
> > >
> > >Hello:
> > >
> > >I picked this up off the APRS Email Sig. I thought it
very
> > >interesting.
> > >
> > >Bill
> > >KC4OUA
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Rich Garcia" <[email protected]>
> > >To: "TAPR APRS Special Interest Group"
> > ><[email protected]>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 3:24 PM
> > >Subject: [aprssig] Re: APRS broken
> > >
> > >
> > > > This is something that I had brought up MANY years
ago but
> > >was dropped. I
> > > > have long thought of APRS needing a backbone and even
> > >tried stirring
> > > > interest in the mid 90's for one reason, coverage. By
> > >using a backbone
> > > > system we could employ as has been mentioned beams,
high
> > >power, and other
> > > > bands (heck even a old analog MW spur)to link WIDE
digi's
> > >over long
> > > > distances.
> > > >
> > > > I spoke at great length with Tom Molton W2VY the
author of
> > >ROSE about this
> > > > and some APRS code was actually written for ROSE
switches
> > >(the BTEXT and
> > >UI
> > > > Digipeating capability)but soon after Tom moved,
changed
> > >jobs and I think
> > > > dropped the ROSE project entirely. I am not sure who
is
> > >responsible for
> > >the
> > > > code right now, I think it may be a club in Tampa.
> > > >
> > > > Yes it would be expensive to build a whole backbone
> > >network but not if we
> > > > would try to make use of ROSE nodes that are already
out
> > >there and
> > >possibly
> > > > gathering dust. Regular packet has died quite a bit
in
> > >some areas but not
> > > > all. A 144.39 port could be added at existing ROSE
switch
> > >sites and use
> > >the
> > > > EXISTING backbone network. Florida had/has quite a
bit of
> > >ROSE and some
> > >WIDE
> > > > sites also have ROSE already there, it is just a
matter of
> > >the software.
> > > >
> > > > Last conversation with Tom W2VY was how we would do
> > >addressing to have the
> > > > APRS packet exit out the proper port at it's final
> > >location using the
> > > > current APRS protocol without modification. This was
in
> > >93' or 94' maybe
> > >it
> > > > is time to look into this possibility again.
> > > >
> > > > In a topography like we have in FL where high for us
is a
> > >1K foot tower
> > >and
> > > > population density is in pockets along the 2 coasts
with
> > >little but swamp
> > > > and gators in-between we need long paths. Areas now
split
> > >like Miami and
> > > > Orlando, or West Palm and Tampa can usually only
converse
> > >via the Igate or
> > >a
> > > > band opening. A backbone could possibly resolve this
issue.
> > > >
> > > > Rich K4GPS
> > > > [email protected]
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: [email protected]
> > > > [mailto:[email protected]]On
Behalf Of
> > >Guy Story,
> > > > KC5GOI
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 1:31 PM
> > > > To: TAPR APRS Special Interest Group
> > > > Subject: [aprssig] Re: APRS broken
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am seeing simular issues in the DFW area with
channel
> > >saturation.  A
> > > > backbone idea has been crawling about the back of my
mind
> > >too.  TexNet
> > >does
> > > > a
> > > > very simular thing, so does ROSE.  The cost to build
a
> > >backbone will not
> > >be
> > > > trivial though.
> > > >
> > > > Why has this issue popped up?  IMHO several reasons.
 1)
> > >Improper useage
> > >of
> > > > unproto paths is still serious. 2) Beacon rates too
often
> > >for fixed
> > >stations
> > > > and mobile stations not moving.  3) txdelay to long
is
> > >sometimes an issue.
> > > > 4)
> > > > generic digipeat paths on WIDES and RELAYS.  I have
seen
> > >many a digi with
> > > > WIDE4-4 instead of specific paths.  5) KPC3 ver 8.2
does
> > >have a bug that
> > > > does
> > > > not always prevent the duplicate packets (this is
not as
> > >severe).
> > > >
> > > > There may be other reasons I am missing, but things
are
> > >getting very
> > >crowded
> > > > in some areas.
> > > >
> > > > 73
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wednesday 17 April 2002 11:25 am, Alan Heaberlin
wrote:
> > > > > > Subject: APRS High-Site BACKBONES
> > > > > > From: Bob Bruninga <[email protected]>
> > > > > > Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:31:40 -0400 (EDT)
> > > > > > X-Message-Number: 42
> > > > > >
> > > > > > APRS is completely broken in many high
populatrion
> > >areas.  We must
> > >move
> > > > > > on past the "single-high-site-digi" 1995 APRS
concept.
> > >  I posted this
> > > > > > before, but here it is again.  I also put this
on a
> > >WEB page:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/backbone.txt
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BACKBONE DIGIS
> > > > WB4APR
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > You are currently subscribed to aprssig as:
> > >[email protected]
> > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > >[email protected]
> > > > Questions regarding the SIG go to the SIG
administrator:
> > >[email protected]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > You are currently subscribed to aprssig as:
> > >[email protected]
> > > > To unsubscribe send a blank email to
> > >[email protected]
> > > > Questions regarding the SIG go to the SIG
administrator:
> > >[email protected]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >------- End of forwarded message -------
> > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >FADCA mailing list
> > >[email protected]
> > >http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
> >
> > 73, Bill N4XEO
> >
> > E- Mail mailto: [email protected]
> > home page: http://www.qsl.net/n4xeo
> > F.A.D.C.A.: http://www.fadca.org
> > FPAC: http://www.qsl.net/fpac
> > ICQ: 19219163
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > FADCA mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> FADCA mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/fadca