[Elecraft] Re: K2 vs OMNI V keying waveform?

Fri May 2 11:12:03 2003

Wayne, et al.

As impressed with my K2 as I am, and as respectful of your outstanding accomplishments as I am...

I have an early MP. I have many hours of operating on it, include numerous stints at Multi/Multi contest setups.

Not once, not ever, did I receive a complaint. This included running max legal into some VERY large antennas.

When the MP click flap started I had a local friend check my signal. He said it was fine, no problems.

When I came by the equipment to carefully measure bandwidth, I found out that I was just as bad as the others were measuring. 

Reran the test with my local friend, got the audio over the phone so I could hear it. I had to point out to him that what he was hearing was key clicks, and that was what the ruckus was all about. His remark was "That's not near as loud as your main signal." He was looking for something down 10 db on the S-meter or the like.

The missing piece for most ad-hoc evaluators is that 40 or 50 db down isn't good enough, given the current 500 Hz spacing stations use. 

For that matter, a lot of the conversations on clicks continue to address 1 khz spacing. Should be measuring and deciding based on 500 Hz spacing, because that's what gets used. 

       ===================

*** ANYONE WHO HAS RUN CLICK TESTS AT 1 KHZ SHOULD REDO THE TESTS AND RETHINK BASED ON THE IDEA THAT +/- 300 HZ BELONGS TO ONE'S NEIGHBOR, NOT ONESELF. *** 

       ===================

As to clicks at 300 Hz, honestly, my K2 #1239 is just as bad as my MP was.

I have never received a complaint on my K2 either.

As to all the other brands, you're right. The *** INDUSTRY *** has a problem with key clicks, more or less. The Omni 6 was fairly clean, and the 6+ has bad clicks, apparently with a new TT fix for it in the works. TT obviously didn't check before they let it out, had made some ALC changes.

It finally occurred to me why I didn't get complaints in contests: The running station who is up or down and suffering doesn't have the TIME to complain. If he comes to my frequency to complain, someone else will take his run frequency. 

People who are search and pounce aren't in any one place long enough to be affected. Complaining will cost 3, 4 QSOs.

But now that the flap is out of the closet, we will know who the quality manufacturers are, because they will be the ones who did something. We will know who we could talk to, and whom we couldn't. We will all know who the good guys are. And aren't. 

Awaiting your promised mods patiently and gratefully. Will be more than happy to participate in any beta/evaluation/tweaking stages.

Good luck and a good time at Visalia/Dayton. Sell a bunch.

73, Guy.

> 
> From: Eric Swartz WA6HHQ - Elecraft <[email protected]>
> Date: 2003/05/02 Fri AM 01:00:02 EDT
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected],  [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Re: K2 vs OMNI V keying waveform?
> 
> Hi guys,
> 
> Over the past three years, prior to when the recent spate of MP key click 
> discussions and mods hit the ham community, we have never received a report 
> from our customers of key click complaints. This with many running high power 
> to large antennas.
> 
> The K2 is in the same category (or better) for keying spectrum width as almost 
> every other commercial ham rig out on the market today (756 PRO, Omni 6, 6+, 
> TS850, TS2000, TS570s etc. (with unmodified MPs slightly worse..). Also note 
> that comparative test result differences of 3 to 5 dB (less than an S unit) 
> are essentially the equal since you can see that much variance when repeating 
> tests on different days and on different serial numbers of the same rig.
> 
> In my many times running the K2/100 into my 87a at 1.5KW I have -never- 
> received a complaint of key clicks. And I've had people actually check each 
> side of me to confirm all was OK. When I worked Earl, K6SE, when he was using 
> his K2/100 in eQP he was +30 or more on my K2, by far the loudest signal on 
> the band, yet I didn't notice him until I tuned very close to his frequency.. 
> We also did extensive testing for key clicks and for on frequency keying when 
> we designed the K2, hence its excellent reputation when running CW. We made 
> sure it was equal to or better than anything on the market at the time.
> 
> Please also remember that the limited receive dynamic range and poor phase 
> noise of most commercial ham rigs will make another strong transmitter 
> (especially on in the same shack), regardless of how clean it is on CW, appear 
> to be much wider than it actually is, due to receive overload and its internal 
> RX phase noise. (Noise blankers don't help either ;^). To be honest, using a 
> ham rig to evaluate the keying width of another transmitter is not an accurate 
> lab test method since it is impossible to determine if the artifacts you are 
> hearing are generated by the transmitter or by the phase noise and IMD 
> products of the receiver. The only way to accurately test transmit bandwidth 
> is with a low phase noise spectrum analyzer. This is the method used by George 
> at International Radio and by Elecraft.
> 
> That said, the recent mods to the MP have certainly made an improvement to 
> that radio and have raised the hopes of many users. Can the K2 be made even 
> better? I wouldn't be surprised. We will certainly take a look at the keying 
> of the K2 and if we can improve the keying spectrum you can bet we will 
> release the mod to you immediately via an application note. Its awfully good 
> now, but as many have noticed, we never give up trying to improve the K2 :^)
> 
> In the mean time I have no fear of being accused of being a 'clicker' ;^)
> 
> 73, Eric  WA6HHQ
> http://www.elecraft.com
> 
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