[Central-Electronics] Central-Electronics Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
Brian Thompson
NI6Q at aol.com
Tue Jul 23 21:27:59 EDT 2013
I've never seen completely flat 6550s like that. Bet there's another reason..
Brian. NI6Q
Sent from my Ipad
On Jul 23, 2013, at 6:02 PM, central-electronics-request at mailman.qth.net wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 6550 (Gordon)
> 2. Re: 6550 (Jim Candela)
> 3. Re: My Central-Electronics CE-100V Project (Chris Kepus)
> 4. Re: 6550 (Gordon)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:17:41 -0700
> From: Gordon <gordon at n6wk.com>
> To: central-electronics at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Central-Electronics] 6550
> Message-ID: <51EEBAB5.70204 at n6wk.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Jim,
> I tested the 6550's on my Tube Tester and they show good. I have checked
> the voltages on the finals in Standby and Transmit.
> Here is what I show. Pin#1 /*Ground*,/ #2 /*F*/, #3 */735R / 616T/*
> #4 */360R / 340T/* #5, */-116R / -36T/* #6 */0/* #7 */F/* #8 */.08/*
>
> They sure seem close to what the manual calls for.
> I don't understand why the tube tester shows them so good though.
> I have looked at the scope signal of the driver tube going into the Grid
> of the finals and it is very strong.
>
> 73,
> Gordon
> N6WK
>
>
> On 7/23/2013 4:24 AM, Jim Candela wrote:
>>
>> Gordon,
>>
>> While waiting for your new tubes you might make sure there isn't some other problem. Perhaps you have a tube tester, or can borrow one. An emission tester will verify if those big tubes are flat. In the 100V, a lack of screen voltage would bring the output way down.
>>
>> I have a tube audio amplifier here that uses the 7868 type tubes. These (and the 7591) are the baby brothers to a 6550. A quad of Sylvania 7868's have been in use since 1981 where they get used about 5 hours a week. Every 3-5 years I check the bias settings, and these tubes just don't die.
>>
>> Back in 2003 I decided to use 7591's in my QRO Central Electronics project, and here again, and with lots of abuse, these old tubes from the early sixties will not die as the bias point remains stable.
>>
>> I did have a recent failure of a 6CM6 (9 pin version of a 6AQ5) in my Gonset G-76 transceiver. It went to zero emission one day to the next. In the rig where it was set up as a class A audio amplifier/driver, there was no cathode current. Testing it on my old Mercury emission tester showed zero emission. Replacing the tube fixed the issue.
>>
>> Some big power tubes with a indirectly heated cathode do have an issue where flakes of oxide from the cathode comes off and gets caught on the control grid. Here it gets hot, and acts as an emitter of electrons which in effect reduces the grid drive, and therefore the power output suffers. The effect is more pronounced on the higher frequencies. A tube like the 4D32 will do this. I asked a wise physicist about the 4D32 problem, and he told me in the early stages it was beneficial to drop the filament voltage about 1/2 volt below 6.3 to lower the cathode temperature.
>>
>> Maybe your 6550's are NOT flat??
>>
>> Jim
>> WD5JKO
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Gordon <gordon at n6wk.com>
>> To: w7fe <w7fe at cox.net>; central-electronics at mailman.qth.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Central-Electronics] 6550
>>
>>
>> Thanks Stu for the info,
>> I just ordered a matched pair of the Russian Tung-Sol tubes. They are shouldered as you suggested.
>> I should have them in a couple of days.
>> I'll report back once I receive and install them.
>>
>> 73,
>> Gordon
>>
>> On 7/22/2013 10:16 PM, w7fe wrote:
>>> When buying replacement 6550's for the 100V/200V, be sure to get ones with the shouldered glass envelope.
>>> I have found that the ones with straight-sided envelopes turn out to be too tall and will interfere with the RF cage cover.
>>>
>>> I bought a pair with the shouldered envelopes a few years ago from the Russian guys who claim to be manufacturing per the original Tung-Sol specs and use the original box colors and artwork. They have been working fine.
>>>
>>> 73 de Stu, W7FE
>>> Henderson, NV
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon" <gordon at n6wk.com>
>>> To: <central-electronics at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 7:01 PM
>>> Subject: [Central-Electronics] 6550
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am almost finished with my CE-100V Restoration.
>>>> Today I discovered that my 6550 finals are bad.
>>>> I have about 8 watts going into the grids and less then 1 watt output.
>>>> Voltages check fine on the Finals. Where is the best place to buy a new pair? Or, is there a better tube that can be used?
>>>> Also, I notice that my meter action seems sticky. Sometimes it drops back past Zero, other times it stops above zero.
>>>> Anyone have a meter or movement to sell?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Gordon
>>>> N6WK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Central-Electronics mailing list
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>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 10:43:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Jim Candela <jcandela at prodigy.net>
> To: "central-electronics at mailman.qth.net"
> <central-electronics at mailman.qth.net>
> Subject: Re: [Central-Electronics] 6550
> Message-ID:
> <1374601412.22134.YahooMailNeo at web184804.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>
> Gordon,
>
> ? A few possibilities come to mind:
>
> 1.) Perhaps the excitation is off frequency from the band selected. Could happen if the rotary switches got out of sync during the restoration.
>
> 2.) The 6550 cathode return to ground isn't right (pin 8). Looking at the schematic, resistors R609, R160, and pot R611 along with the meter itself (watts input) come into play.
>
> 3.) Have you tried different bands? Perhaps you have a bad broad band coupler on the 6550 plate side?
>
> ? I presume the tubes idle correctly? Does the meter (watts input) increase with drive?
>
> Keep in mind, my response is from a 20A guy, so please take with a grain of salt. :-)?
>
> Jim
> WD5JKO
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gordon <gordon at n6wk.com>
> To: central-electronics at mailman.qth.net
> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Central-Electronics] 6550
>
>
> Hi Jim,
> I tested the 6550's on my Tube Tester and they show good. I have checked
> the voltages on the finals in Standby and Transmit.
> Here is what I show. Pin#1 /*Ground*,/? #2 /*F*/, #3 */735R / 616T/*?
> #4 */360R / 340T/*? #5, */-116R / -36T/*? #6 */0/*? #7 */F/* #8 */.08/*
>
> They sure seem close to what the manual calls for.
> I don't understand why the tube tester shows them so good though.
> I have looked at the scope signal of the driver tube going into the Grid
> of the finals and it is very strong.
>
> 73,
> Gordon
> N6WK
>
>
> On 7/23/2013 4:24 AM, Jim Candela wrote:
>>
>> Gordon,
>>
>> ? ? While waiting for your new tubes you might make sure there isn't some other problem. Perhaps you have a tube tester, or can borrow one. An emission tester will verify if those big tubes are flat. In the 100V, a lack of screen voltage would bring the output way down.
>>
>> ? ? I have a tube audio amplifier here that uses the 7868 type tubes. These (and the 7591) are the baby brothers to a 6550. A quad of Sylvania 7868's have been in use since 1981 where they get used about 5 hours a week. Every 3-5 years I check the bias settings, and these tubes just don't die.
>>
>> ? ? Back in 2003 I decided to use 7591's in my QRO Central Electronics project, and here again, and with lots of abuse, these old tubes from the early sixties will not die as the bias point remains stable.
>>
>> ? ? I did have a recent failure of a 6CM6 (9 pin version of a 6AQ5) in my Gonset G-76 transceiver. It went to zero emission one day to the next. In the rig where it was set up as a class A audio amplifier/driver, there was no cathode current. Testing it on my old Mercury emission tester showed zero emission. Replacing the tube fixed the issue.
>>
>> ? ? Some big power tubes with a indirectly heated cathode do have an issue where flakes of oxide from the cathode comes off and gets caught on the control grid. Here it gets hot, and acts as an emitter of electrons which in effect reduces the grid drive, and therefore the power output suffers. The effect is more pronounced on the higher frequencies. A tube like the 4D32 will do this.? I asked a wise physicist about the 4D32 problem, and he told me in the early stages it was beneficial to drop the filament voltage about 1/2 volt below 6.3 to lower the cathode temperature.
>>
>> ? ? Maybe your 6550's are NOT flat??
>>
>> Jim
>> WD5JKO
>>
>> ________________________________
>> ? From: Gordon <gordon at n6wk.com>
>> To: w7fe <w7fe at cox.net>; central-electronics at mailman.qth.net
>> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 12:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Central-Electronics] 6550
>> ?
>>
>> Thanks Stu for the info,
>> I just ordered a matched pair of the Russian Tung-Sol tubes. They are shouldered as you suggested.
>> I should have them in a couple of days.
>> I'll report back once I receive and install them.
>>
>> 73,
>> Gordon
>>
>> On 7/22/2013 10:16 PM, w7fe wrote:
>>> When buying replacement 6550's for the 100V/200V, be sure to get ones with the shouldered glass envelope.
>>> I have found that the ones with straight-sided envelopes turn out to be too tall and will interfere with the RF cage cover.
>>>
>>> I bought a pair with the shouldered envelopes a few years ago from the Russian guys who claim to be manufacturing per the original Tung-Sol specs and use the original box colors and artwork.? They have been working fine.
>>>
>>> 73 de Stu, W7FE
>>> Henderson, NV
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gordon" <gordon at n6wk.com>
>>> To: <central-electronics at mailman.qth.net>
>>> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 7:01 PM
>>> Subject: [Central-Electronics] 6550
>>>
>>>
>>>> I am almost finished with my CE-100V Restoration.
>>>> Today I discovered that my 6550 finals are bad.
>>>> I have about 8 watts going into the grids and less then 1 watt output.
>>>> Voltages check fine on the Finals. Where is the best place to buy a new pair? Or, is there a better tube that can be used?
>>>> Also, I notice that my meter action seems sticky. Sometimes it drops back past Zero, other times it stops above zero.
>>>> Anyone have a meter or movement to sell?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Gordon
>>>> N6WK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Central-Electronics mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/central-electronics
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:Central-Electronics at mailman.qth.net
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Central-Electronics mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/central-electronics
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Central-Electronics at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Central-Electronics mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/central-electronics
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:Central-Electronics at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Central-Electronics mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/central-electronics
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:Central-Electronics at mailman.qth.net
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 12:16:42 -0700
> From: "Chris Kepus" <ckepus at comcast.net>
> To: "'Gordon'" <gordon at n6wk.com>
> Cc: central-electronics at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Central-Electronics] My Central-Electronics CE-100V
> Project
> Message-ID: <000301ce87d9$2a3962e0$7eac28a0$@net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Gordon, please add my request to the growing number who want and hope you
> release your trade secrets, i.e. products used, technique used, etc., to
> achieve the stunning restoration results you showed in your pics.
>
> I volunteer to take dictation and send you the text to proof and distribute,
> if you wish, so that you don't have to go to a lot of extra effort. It
> would be worth it to be able to come close to the result you did. My 200V
> will be sooooo happy!
>
> 73 and ready to listen,
> Chris
> W7JPG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: central-electronics-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> [mailto:central-electronics-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Gordon
> Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 11:20 PM
> Cc: central-electronics at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: [Central-Electronics] My Central-Electronics CE-100V Project
>
> Here is a link to my Progress so far.
>
> http://www.n6wk.com/CE-100V/CE-100V-Restoration-9.pdf
>
>
> 73,
> Gordon
> N6WK
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2013 18:01:53 -0700
> From: Gordon <gordon at n6wk.com>
> To: central-electronics at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [Central-Electronics] 6550
> Message-ID: <51EF2781.3020602 at n6wk.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I am still fighting the no to Low output on my CE-100V.
> I have ordered new 6550 tubes, but now I am thinking they are nt the
> problem. The tube tester shows both as very strong
> I am now wondering if someone has mixed up the Broadband output Coils.
> Can anyone tell me what color is correct for each band?
> I have Red for 80, yellow for 40, green for 20, blue for 15 and slate for 10
>
> Is this correct?
> I have now discovered that I get more output as I move up in bands. I
> get a whole 12 watts out on 20 and 15 meters..LOL
> Is there a way to test the center Frequency of each of these broadband
> output coils?
>
> Thanks,
> Gordon
> N6WK
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of Central-Electronics Digest, Vol 108, Issue 4
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