[Ares-races] Re: ARES-RACES Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4
Jared
kc0rjc at arrl.net
Sun Aug 15 21:39:34 EDT 2004
I went to a ARRL seminar in Olathe, Kansas, where they discussed this
issue. They have looked thoroughly over the cost of deployment of the
system. The system is of good basic design. It does have flaws relating
to the internet going down. The government wants a system at a price and
this is what they and their consultants have chosen. I encourage all of
the individuals involved with emergency communications to have their own
backup systems that do not rely solely on the internet. Also run a
variation in operating systems so you are not vulnerable to viruses.
73,
KC0RJC
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>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Digital emergency communications (Doug Younker)
> 2. Re: Digital emergency communications (Jerry Reimer)
> 3. Re: Digital emergency communications (George Andrews)
> 4. Re: Digital emergency communications (Michael A. Urich)
> 5. RE: Digital emergency communications (Joe B. Dorn)
> 6. Re: Digital emergency communications (Doug Younker)
> 7. Re: Digital emergency communications (Howard Coleman)
> 8. Re: Digital emergency communications (Jerry Reimer)
> 9. Re: Digital emergency communications (JOE)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 04:03:46 -0500
>From: "Doug Younker" <dougy at ruraltel.net>
>Subject: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: <HamsEF at yahoogroups.com>, <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
>Message-ID: <015001c482a6$c6805e20$0338fea9 at oemcomputer>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>Hello;
> I for one find it disappointing that the ARRL chose not to promote a
>real digital amateur network. As it was said in another forum the ARRL in a
>sense decided to back up the internet with the internet. No I'm not saying
>it's possible for an amateur radio RF network to backup the internet. I am
>saying such a network could greatly expand the capabilities of amateur radio
>to serve in event of communication emergency. Excerpts from ARRL document
>follows my sig. .--73
>Doug, N0LKK
>dougy at ruraltel.net
>
>From; http://winlink.org/Presentations/ares.pdf
>
>July, 2003: In cooperation with its partnership
>with Homeland Security & at their recommendation,
>the ARRL Board sought to provide a Nationwide
>digital system to enhance the communications
>capability of the Amateur Radio Emergency Service
>(ARES) There are situations, the Board said, when
>ARES "must have the capability to pass digital
>traffic across the Nation quickly and accurately.
>
>The ARRL Board adopted a resolution encouraging further development and
>expansion of an inaugural network to enhance the emergency communications
>capability of the Amateur Radio Emergency Service® (ARES) The Board's motion
>encouraged the deployment of e-mail via Amateur Radio--as exemplified by
>Winlink
>2000--"as an additional emergency capability provided to agencies served by
>ARES.
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 05:40:56 -0500
>From: Jerry Reimer <jerryreimer at charter.net>
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20040815051458.00ba73c8 at pop.charter.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>The committee recommended, and the board endorsed, the best available
>system. All the pieces of this system exist, they work, and the software
>is free. All anyone needs to do is use it. Most of the opponents have not
>used it, some have never even seen it demonstrated. Those who have
>actually used it are overwhelmingly in favor of it.
>
>Start simple by using Airmail for peer-to-peer communications on 2M FM,
>then add a TelPac gateway station. Airmail also supports Pactor for HF,
>either point-to-point or to one of 44 Winlink HF stations around the world.
>
>We are approaching three years since September 11, 2001, and we still do
>not have a system in place. If not Winlink, what? If not now, when?
>
>Jerry
>KK5CA
>
>
>
>At 04:03 AM 8/15/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>>Hello;
>>I for one find it disappointing that the ARRL chose not to promote a
>>real digital amateur network.
>>Doug, N0LKK
>>dougy at ruraltel.net
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:12:36 -0400
>From: "George Andrews" <gandrews at ntplx.net>
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>, "Jerry Reimer"
> <jerryreimer at charter.net>
>Message-ID: <007601c482c9$89188760$6501a8c0 at MADHATTER>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Jerry,
>
>Good comments! We can spend a lot of time talking about something and
>accomplish nothing. Winlink is an attempt to accomplish something.. Perhaps
>we should put it to the test, formally or informally and measure what it is
>capable of. I plan on giving it a try. Maybe everyone should do the same.
>Let's move ahead with this and see what happens!
>
>George Andrews, RRPT
>N1YAE FN31kj
>WPYQ853
>gandrews at ntplx.net
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jerry Reimer" <jerryreimer at charter.net>
>To: <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
>Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 6:40 AM
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>
>
>
>
>>The committee recommended, and the board endorsed, the best available
>>system. All the pieces of this system exist, they work, and the software
>>is free. All anyone needs to do is use it. Most of the opponents have
>>
>>
>not
>
>
>>used it, some have never even seen it demonstrated. Those who have
>>actually used it are overwhelmingly in favor of it.
>>
>>Start simple by using Airmail for peer-to-peer communications on 2M FM,
>>then add a TelPac gateway station. Airmail also supports Pactor for HF,
>>either point-to-point or to one of 44 Winlink HF stations around the
>>
>>
>world.
>
>
>>We are approaching three years since September 11, 2001, and we still do
>>not have a system in place. If not Winlink, what? If not now, when?
>>
>>Jerry
>>KK5CA
>>
>>
>>
>>At 04:03 AM 8/15/2004, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello;
>>>I for one find it disappointing that the ARRL chose not to promote a
>>>real digital amateur network.
>>>Doug, N0LKK
>>>dougy at ruraltel.net
>>>
>>>
>>"Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've
>>
>>
>got...till it's gone." from Big Yellow Taxi (Joni Mitchell) but also
>true about QSL.NET if more users don't open their wallets and help
>financially. Please contribute TODAY !!
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>ARES-RACES mailing list
>>ARES-RACES at mailman.qth.net
>>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ares-races
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:25:43 -0500 (CDT)
>From: "Michael A. Urich" <mike at ka5cvh.com>
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: "George Andrews" <gandrews at ntplx.net>, ares-races at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <56705.66.25.12.130.1092579943.squirrel at 66.25.12.130>
>Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
>
>
>
>>Jerry,
>>
>>Good comments! We can spend a lot of time talking about something and
>>accomplish nothing. Winlink is an attempt to accomplish something..
>>
>>
>
>
>Mike wrote
>
>Not to heap upon the original poster but friend we have to crawl before we
>can walk. I just put together an old computer soley for AirMail. I'll be
>putting the station on the air here short (one more in S/E Harris Co
>Jerry).
>
>I see AirMail as the beginning to crawl. IMHO its a great platform from
>what I've observed. As with any platform the more users will bring forth
>more and hopefully better ideas to either expand the capablities of
>AirMail or to even come up with something new and better. Compaining
>about AirMail is like showing up with a HT with a half dead battery for a
>ARES/RACES drill and nothing else and calling yourself prepared.
>
>I'm sure that the folks involved in the Columbia (shuttle) recovery would
>have loved to have AirMail up and running in the Lufkin / Nacogdoches
>(TX)area. If you did not have an opportunity to read the article about
>the amateur radio communities involvement with the recovery I have it
>posted on my web-site. This is really a must read for anyone who is in
>ARES/RACES.
>
>http://www.ka5cvh.com/the_eyes_of_texas.htm
>
>While I'm not quite finished with it yet but check out the pictures on my
>web-site http://www.ka5cvh.com/photos in the album "Portable Station"
>
>Mike Urich, KA5CVH
>http://ka5cvh.com
>
>Character = How you treat people who can do nothing for you in return!
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:59:27 -0500
>From: "Joe B. Dorn" <joedorn at stonemedia.com>
>Subject: RE: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: "Doug Younker" <dougy at ruraltel.net>, <HamsEF at yahoogroups.com>,
> <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
>Message-ID: <PKEAJCMGKMCIIPKDLLMPEEEDFBAA.joedorn at stonemedia.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>The motivation behind the ARRL's choice was availability. WinLink 2000 is a
>working system far superior to the current NTS and answers several EC needs.
>It is not a stopping point but rather a starting point...Improve it if you
>can and we will all benefit... If there is a better system currently
>available, let us know...
>
>I have implemented it and love it. I think it is great that email can be
>sent to or from a field location directly to the people that need the
>information most.
>
>BTW, I have recently been in a session that included an ARRL director (Coy
>Day) and the man that wrote the articles in the past two QST's (Jerry
>Reimer) and neither stated that this was a stopping point but rather an
>immediate solution to some of the problems we have...
>
>Joe Dorn, W5VEX, Belton, Texas
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: ares-races-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>[mailto:ares-races-bounces at mailman.qth.net]On Behalf Of Doug Younker
>Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2004 4:04 AM
>To: HamsEF at yahoogroups.com; ares-races at mailman.qth.net
>Subject: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>
>Hello;
> I for one find it disappointing that the ARRL chose not to promote a
>real digital amateur network. As it was said in another forum the ARRL in a
>sense decided to back up the internet with the internet. No I'm not saying
>it's possible for an amateur radio RF network to backup the internet. I am
>saying such a network could greatly expand the capabilities of amateur radio
>to serve in event of communication emergency. Excerpts from ARRL document
>follows my sig. .--73
>Doug, N0LKK
>dougy at ruraltel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:17:30 -0500
>From: "Doug Younker" <dougy at ruraltel.net>
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
>Message-ID: <003101c48315$a8fe3380$0338fea9 at oemcomputer>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>Hello,
>
> Amateur radio is what it is and only can do what it can do. The
>trick is not to over sell the capabilities of amateur radio and amateur
>radio operators with out understating what they can do. I'm not totally
>against the inter connection of amateur radio and the internet. For as long
>as I have been aware of amateur radio and it's ability to serve in the event
>of an emergency one of it's strong points was it's independence from other
>means of communications.
>
> I have to feel endorsing Winlink the ARRL has overstated the
>capabilities of amateur radio. There was/is always the possibility that
>amateurs couldn't fulfill their promise because of conditions out of their
>control. Planning for traffic expected for amateurs to handle to be
>transported by internet adds a level where failure can occur and the amateur
>can't possibly effect. The document I referred to shows using HF in the
>event of an internet failure. I'm sorry I'm back to the first sentance in my
>original post "I have to say that I'm very disappointed the ARRL chose not
>aid building/designing a modern amateur radio digital network." Endorsing a
>method that will rely on what is, as far as I know, is a weak system, is
>poor planning in light of some of the criteria stated for the planning.
>
>Respectfully amateur digital communications has been in baby steps for
>years. The passage of three years since 9/11/2001 is a moot point since
>leadership by the ARRL in regards to using modern amateur digital
>communications was non-existent prior to the attack on that date.
>
>73
>Doug, N0LKK
>dougy at ruraltel.net
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.736 / Virus Database: 490 - Release Date: 08/09/2004
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 15:35:53 -0700
>From: "Howard Coleman" <n6vdv at tds.net>
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: <ares-races at mailman.qth.net>
>Message-ID: <001d01c48318$3b4ea4c0$2ae2fea9 at toshibauser>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
>
>There is another side of this issue that this thread that has not discussed.
>The recommended use of WinLink was made after discussions between the ARRL
>and Homeland Security. My humble opinion is that Homeland Security wanted a
>media that they could also also have access too.
>
>Straight packet, as the system stands today, is not even a pimple on the
>butt of what it once was. I've downloaded a number of the Winlink programs
>and am going to install them just to see how it works before I make up my
>mind. Bluntly, I'm in favor of any format that will bring the digital
>communications back as another means of communications during an emergency.
>The talks between the ARRL and Homeland Security on this issue, were not
>looking at a local earthquake or tornado. I'll bet my bottom dollar
>Homeland Security wants is a system that has a greater chance of staying
>online in the event of multiple terrorists activity.
>
>Howard Coleman N6VDV
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:48:10 -0500
>From: Jerry Reimer <jerryreimer at charter.net>
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <6.1.0.6.0.20040815174027.01b8bd18 at pop.charter.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>
>Howard,
>
>I sincerely thank you for your willingness to at least try this free system
>before forming an opinion about it. You are among a very small
>minority. Welcome.
>
>Regarding your comment on being in favor of any format that will restore
>digital ECOM, I can only say: Amen, brother!
>
>Our ARES group started down this path in May 2002, after our emergency
>management folks said: "Voice is fine, but if you hams want to remain
>valuable to us in the future, you must find a way to interface with our
>message systems, and send your reports from the field by e-mail."
>
>Jerry
>KK5CA
>
>
>At 05:35 PM 8/15/2004, you wrote:
>
>
>>I've downloaded a number of the Winlink programs
>>and am going to install them just to see how it works before I make up my
>>mind. Bluntly, I'm in favor of any format that will bring the digital
>>communications back as another means of communications during an emergency.
>>
>>Howard Coleman N6VDV
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 19:21:44 -0400
>From: JOE <k1ike at snet.net>
>Subject: Re: [Ares-races] Digital emergency communications
>To: ares-races at mailman.qth.net
>Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040815191330.0162bbb8 at pop.snet.yahoo.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
>I wholeheartedly agree with Doug. Many times, I have seen Amateur Radio
>overstated as to what we are capable of doing. Sometimes equipment,
>sometimes manpower, sometimes propagation conditions limit our
>abilities. I am always very clear to the served agency that "We will do
>the best we can with what we have available". This has a lot of meanings.
>
>I am all for using the Internet for PART of our communications
>abilities. We must not lead the served agency to believe that we can
>always interface using email. Our primary mode of communications is voice,
>this is what we are all capable of and do the best. We might be able to
>supplement this with email, but not always.
>
>We really need to be very careful as to what we commit to, or what the
>served agency THINKS that we have committed to. Our only positive
>commitment should be voice communications.
>
>73, Joe, k1ike
>
>At 05:17 PM 8/15/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>>Hello,
>>
>> Amateur radio is what it is and only can do what it can do. The
>>trick is not to over sell the capabilities of amateur radio and amateur
>>radio operators with out understating what they can do. I'm not totally
>>against the inter connection of amateur radio and the internet. For as long
>>as I have been aware of amateur radio and it's ability to serve in the event
>>of an emergency one of it's strong points was it's independence from other
>>means of communications.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/ares-races
>
>
>End of ARES-RACES Digest, Vol 7, Issue 4
>****************************************
>
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>
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