[ARC5] HAs anyone tried the RF thermocouple on VHF?

[Mike Feher]

Peter -

That is probably a bolometer, which still works on thermal heating. 73 - Mike 

Mike B. Feher, N4FS
89 Arnold Blvd.
Howell NJ 07731
848-245-9115

-----Original Message-----
From: arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Peter Gottlieb
Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 11:14 AM
To: Scott Johnson <scottjohnson1 at cox.net>
Cc: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [ARC5] HAs anyone tried the RF thermocouple on VHF?

I have a TS-147/UP which has an x-band waveguide thermistor mount but it's been decades since I had it open. 

Thermal measurement of power has been used a long time, but the specific sensor design needs to be matched to the frequency of interest. 


Peter

> On Sep 7, 2017, at 9:40 AM, Scott Johnson <scottjohnson1 at cox.net> wrote:
> 
> Yes, but those thermocouples are nearly microscopic, and are measuring 
> the temperature rise of a carbon film load.  There are actually two or 
> more thermocouples, one for ambient temperature compensation, and 
> another to measure the load temperature.  The HP 84XX series are a 
> good example.  Thermistors based sensors are (were) used widely, and 
> are considered reference standards.  More recently , diode type meters 
> have become predominant, due to their high speed and ability to 
> measure pulsed power accurately.  I use all three types, as well as 
> directional line samplers (Bird), and even calorimetric (HP-434A) 
> which has PLUMBING! (A pump, copper tubing, oil, tubes, high voltage, 
> a fan; pretty much everything electrical and mechanical)  Best way to 
> accurately measure mid-power microwave power in the late fifties! 
> (see: 
> http://www.radiomuseum.org/r/hewlett_pa_calorimetric_power_meter.html 
> )
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott V. Johnson W7SVJ
> 5111 E. Sharon Dr.
> Scottsdale, AZ 85254-3636
> H (602) 953-5779
> C (480) 550-2358
> scottjohnson1 at cox.net
> scott.johnson at ieee.org
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Gottlieb [mailto:kb2vtl at gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 6:21 AM
> To: Scott Johnson <scottjohnson1 at cox.net>
> Cc: Bill Cromwell <wrcromwell at gmail.com>; arc5 at mailman.qth.net
> Subject: Re: [ARC5] HAs anyone tried the RF thermocouple on VHF?
> 
> But thermocouples are used in precision power measurement equipment well through microwaves. 
> 
> 
> Peter
> 
>> On Sep 7, 2017, at 9:09 AM, Scott Johnson <scottjohnson1 at cox.net> wrote:
>> 
>> As a rule, RF thermocouples become too reactive at even the upper HF frequencies to be of any practical use.
>> 
>> Scott V. Johnson W7SVJ
>> 5111 E. Sharon Dr.
>> Scottsdale, AZ 85254-3636
>> H (602) 953-5779
>> C (480) 550-2358
>> scottjohnson1 at cox.net
>> scott.johnson at ieee.org
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net
>> [mailto:arc5-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Bill Cromwell
>> Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 6:06 AM
>> To: arc5 at mailman.qth.net
>> Subject: Re: [ARC5] HAs anyone tried the RF thermocouple on VHF?
>> 
>> Heh,
>> 
>> I still use a light bulb dummy load every once ina  while. But I have to listen on frequency with a real antenna first. Light bulbs radiate. I discovered that when I put on on a transceiver and started copying 40 meter stations! Out of curiosity I tried some QSOs with the light bulb and I got a few. Don't try that with your newfangled silicon final transmitter - even though I have done that too (and got away with it).
>> 
>> Of course, that us not VHF, either.
>> 
>> 73,
>> 
>> Bill  KU8H
>> 
>>> On 09/07/2017 08:53 AM, David Stinson wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *From:*J Mcvey via ARC5, 2017 9:00 PM
>>> *Subject:* [ARC5] HAs anyone tried the RF thermocouple on VHF?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Did they have an ammeter for the T-23?
>>> 
>>> ------------------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The T-23 does not use an RF Current sensing thermocouple.
>>> 
>>> “By the book” tune-up uses a remote-meter test set and a
>>> 
>>> 50-ohm dummy load with light bulbs to indicate current.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 73 Dave AB5S
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> --
>> bark less - wag more
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