[ARC5] Video discussing the loss of the Lady Be Good

Wed Dec 31 01:25:37 EST 2014

Hi Les - that technique is also used in land-nav / Orienteering.  Say you
are bumbling through the woods back towards your vehicle which is parked on
the road.  You don't calculate an azimuth from your present estimated
location directly to the vehicle, (you will probably miss it).  Rather you
walk an azimuth that is intentionally to the left or right of the vehicle.
When you finally hit the road (hard to miss) you know which direction
(right or left) along the road the vehicle must be.  Same idea - the road
serving as the latitude line.......

Easier to do than to explain!  HaHa

"I have never been lost.  However, on occasion, I didn't know where
everyone else was"

73, de Tim
N6CC

On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Leslie Smith <vk2bcu at operamail.com> wrote:

>   Hello List-readers!
>   At the end of the video a number of well experienced types gave an
>   opinion on the problems in navigating to a point and why the LBG was
>   lost.
>  One made the point that he always navigated to a point 'off target' -
>  i.e. to the east or west of the base.
>   Doing this, and using a sextant he could accurately know the current
>   latitude.
>   When the aircraft was on the latitude of the base, but 50 miles or so
>   to E or W  he'd confirm that (using the loop).
>   After that the plane would fly E or W find the base using that
>   strategy.
>   He claimed this reduced the problem of over-flying the base.
>   I found his method (or the description of his method) quite
>   fascinating, because nothing beats experience.
>
>
>   73 de Les Smith
>   vk2bcu at operamail.com
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014, at 14:14, Tim wrote:
> > I would assume that aviation navigators were pretty well trained before
> > they deployed.  But there is a big difference between being trained - and
> > being experienced.  And a further difference in using that knowledge
> > while
> > on a combat mission "on your own" once you get disoriented, at night...
> >
> > Sure, ded (dead) reckoning from point A to point B with course, speed,
> > winds and distance to landfall is a textbook no-brainer.  No electronic
> > aids necessary...How hard is it to hit the African coast?  A quick
> > sextant
> > sight of the North Star would tell you if you were over the Med or over
> > Africa....But then again - if it was easy, everyone would be doing
> > it....LOL    These situations provide lots of opportunities to make
> > mistakes....  Huge responsibilities....Glad I'm just an armchair
> > navigator!
> >
> > On following reciprocal bearings:  Sounds like the 5 TBM Avengers in the
> > Bermuda Triangle....probably a similar loss of situational awareness,
> > then
> > panic...  Or the 7 destroyers in formation that ran aground near
> > Vandenberg
> > AFB in the 1920's....
> >
> > "There but for the grace of God go I......"
> >
> > Tim
> > N6CC
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Kenneth G. Gordon <
> > kgordon2006 at frontier.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On 30 Dec 2014 at 8:27, Mike Hanz wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 12/29/2014 11:53 PM, kgordon2006 at frontier.com wrote:
> > > > > As I remember it, the Lady Be Good had no ADF, which is Automatic
> > > Direction
> > > > > Finder. It had a "Football" loop and a receiver (like the BC-453)
> with
> > > a loop
> > > > > connection which could be used to easily determine a bearing to a
> known
> > > > > transmitter, like an NDB. None of these systems had a way to
> resolve
> > > the 180
> > > > > degree ambiguity on a single bearing to an unknown station: there
> had
> > > to be at
> > > > > least two bearings to known stations in order to triangulate a
> > > position.
> > > >
> > > > I'm a little puzzled, Ken.
> > >
> > > Don't be: as I said, "As I remember it...". Obviously my memory is
> faulty.
> > > I
> > > also will sometimes bring up things like this in order to be
> "corrected" by
> > > those, like you, who know far more than I.
> > >
> > > >  These were new B-24D aircraft, the year was
> > > > 1943, and the standard issue for the aircraft at the time was the
> > > > SCR-269-C automatic direction finder, which definitely has both the
> > > > "football" loop and vertical whip sense antennas that work together
> to
> > > > eliminate ambiguity.  Of course, the navigator needs to remember to
> > > > place the control box function control in the "compass" position
> rather
> > > > than the "loop" position in order to obtain the unambiguous result of
> > > > both antennas.  After passing the radio station, the radio compass
> would
> > > > have automatically swung around and pointed backwards to the station
> > > > again.  The arrow point of an I-82-A compass is *unmistakable* unless
> > > > one is blind.  Perhaps that pointing backwards was what caused the
> > > > "navigator" to report that his ADF was broken?
> > >
> > > Well, after reading that short note that Wayne (?) posted concerning
> the
> > > navigator who although royally screwing up the mission to Norway, still
> > > came
> > > out smelling like a rose, IMHO, the navigator on the LBG was the main
> > > problem, although there were other, less important issues, with the
> ground
> > > stations.
> > >
> > > Again, IMHO, the navigator is at least as important as the pilot on
> > > missions
> > > such as the LBG's first, and, sadly, only, one.
> > >
> > > Too bad so many navigators were, obviously, so poorly trained...
> > >
> > > I had also wondered about the effects of AGC on weak signals with ADF.
> I'm
> > > glad someone (W6MAB?) brought that up.
> > >
> > > Lastly, how effective was the SCR-269? Was it easy to use, work well,
> etc?
> > >
> > > I've always wanted a really good, effective, working ADF system....
> > >
> > > At one time, many years ago, I was given a brand-new MN-26, but with no
> > > accessories. What a beautifully-made piece of equipment! I always
> wished I
> > > had been able to get it completed. It is long gone now.
> > >
> > > Ken W7EKB
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