[ARC5] Video discussing the loss of the Lady Be Good

Wed Dec 31 00:40:13 EST 2014

  Hello List-readers!  
  At the end of the video a number of well experienced types gave an
  opinion on the problems in navigating to a point and why the LBG was
  lost.
 One made the point that he always navigated to a point 'off target' -
 i.e. to the east or west of the base. 
  Doing this, and using a sextant he could accurately know the current
  latitude. 
  When the aircraft was on the latitude of the base, but 50 miles or so
  to E or W  he'd confirm that (using the loop).
  After that the plane would fly E or W find the base using that
  strategy.
  He claimed this reduced the problem of over-flying the base.
  I found his method (or the description of his method) quite
  fascinating, because nothing beats experience.

  73 de Les Smith
  vk2bcu at operamail.com

On Wed, Dec 31, 2014, at 14:14, Tim wrote:
> I would assume that aviation navigators were pretty well trained before
> they deployed.  But there is a big difference between being trained - and
> being experienced.  And a further difference in using that knowledge
> while
> on a combat mission "on your own" once you get disoriented, at night...
> 
> Sure, ded (dead) reckoning from point A to point B with course, speed,
> winds and distance to landfall is a textbook no-brainer.  No electronic
> aids necessary...How hard is it to hit the African coast?  A quick
> sextant
> sight of the North Star would tell you if you were over the Med or over
> Africa....But then again - if it was easy, everyone would be doing
> it....LOL    These situations provide lots of opportunities to make
> mistakes....  Huge responsibilities....Glad I'm just an armchair
> navigator!
> 
> On following reciprocal bearings:  Sounds like the 5 TBM Avengers in the
> Bermuda Triangle....probably a similar loss of situational awareness,
> then
> panic...  Or the 7 destroyers in formation that ran aground near
> Vandenberg
> AFB in the 1920's....
> 
> "There but for the grace of God go I......"
> 
> Tim
> N6CC
> 
> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Kenneth G. Gordon <
> kgordon2006 at frontier.com> wrote:
> 
> > On 30 Dec 2014 at 8:27, Mike Hanz wrote:
> >
> > > On 12/29/2014 11:53 PM, kgordon2006 at frontier.com wrote:
> > > > As I remember it, the Lady Be Good had no ADF, which is Automatic
> > Direction
> > > > Finder. It had a "Football" loop and a receiver (like the BC-453) with
> > a loop
> > > > connection which could be used to easily determine a bearing to a known
> > > > transmitter, like an NDB. None of these systems had a way to resolve
> > the 180
> > > > degree ambiguity on a single bearing to an unknown station: there had
> > to be at
> > > > least two bearings to known stations in order to triangulate a
> > position.
> > >
> > > I'm a little puzzled, Ken.
> >
> > Don't be: as I said, "As I remember it...". Obviously my memory is faulty.
> > I
> > also will sometimes bring up things like this in order to be "corrected" by
> > those, like you, who know far more than I.
> >
> > >  These were new B-24D aircraft, the year was
> > > 1943, and the standard issue for the aircraft at the time was the
> > > SCR-269-C automatic direction finder, which definitely has both the
> > > "football" loop and vertical whip sense antennas that work together to
> > > eliminate ambiguity.  Of course, the navigator needs to remember to
> > > place the control box function control in the "compass" position rather
> > > than the "loop" position in order to obtain the unambiguous result of
> > > both antennas.  After passing the radio station, the radio compass would
> > > have automatically swung around and pointed backwards to the station
> > > again.  The arrow point of an I-82-A compass is *unmistakable* unless
> > > one is blind.  Perhaps that pointing backwards was what caused the
> > > "navigator" to report that his ADF was broken?
> >
> > Well, after reading that short note that Wayne (?) posted concerning the
> > navigator who although royally screwing up the mission to Norway, still
> > came
> > out smelling like a rose, IMHO, the navigator on the LBG was the main
> > problem, although there were other, less important issues, with the ground
> > stations.
> >
> > Again, IMHO, the navigator is at least as important as the pilot on
> > missions
> > such as the LBG's first, and, sadly, only, one.
> >
> > Too bad so many navigators were, obviously, so poorly trained...
> >
> > I had also wondered about the effects of AGC on weak signals with ADF. I'm
> > glad someone (W6MAB?) brought that up.
> >
> > Lastly, how effective was the SCR-269? Was it easy to use, work well, etc?
> >
> > I've always wanted a really good, effective, working ADF system....
> >
> > At one time, many years ago, I was given a brand-new MN-26, but with no
> > accessories. What a beautifully-made piece of equipment! I always wished I
> > had been able to get it completed. It is long gone now.
> >
> > Ken W7EKB
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