[ARC5] NSS Cutler, ME
hwhall at compuserve.com
hwhall at compuserve.com
Wed Nov 27 17:28:42 EST 2013
When I typed that, I was thinking in terms of 'mainstream' in the physics community. That is, were those guys thinking way outside the current 'box' or not.
Wayne
WB4OGM
-----Original Message-----
From: J. Forster <jfor at quikus.com>
To: hwhall <hwhall at compuserve.com>
Cc: arc5 <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2013 2:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ARC5] NSS Cutler, ME
It depends on wehat you mean by 'mainstream'.
The general populace lives and thinks in a Newtonian world- a kinda
mechanical, deterministic universe that runs pretty much like a Swiss
clock.
In the world of Modern Physics there is Relativity and Quantum Mechanics,
which is very much 'mainstream physics' but is waaaay outside the realm of
practical experience. Most people do not understand this world.
Then there are things like quantized time, string theory, etc. which are
the realm of speculation and theory. And mat well e untestable to boot.
-John
====================
> There was a Scientific American issue a year or so ago in which an
> article indicated some physicists are considering whether the whole
> universe might be 'digital' - that is, that everything actually exists
> and changes in quantized states. I don't know how far out of the
> mainstream that thinking was, though.
>
> Wayne
>
> WB4OGM
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim <timsamm at gmail.com>
> To: jfor <jfor at quikus.com>
> Cc: D C _Mac_ Macdonald <k2gkk at hotmail.com>; ARC-5 List
> <arc5 at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wed, Nov 27, 2013 12:16 pm
> Subject: Re: [ARC5] NSS Cutler, ME
>
>
>
>
> HaHa - That's what I was getting at....Does time "arrive" in quanta? Are
> there pre, present and post quanta?
> Time for a beer......
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:35 AM, J. Forster <jfor at quikus.com>
> wrote:
>
> > If you mean is time quantized, ask Stephen Hawkings. He's about the
> only
> > one who can answer that VERY deep question.
> >
> > -John
> >
> > ===================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Good stuff Roy - Thanks!
> > > Question: Is time digital or analog?
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 27, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Roy Morgan
> <k1lky68 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 27, 2013, at 11:57 AM, D C _Mac_ Macdonald
> <k2gkk at hotmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Were time signals (ala WWV) once sent from a "Naval
> Observatory?" Was
> > >> that once the location of WWV?
> > >>
> > >> I’m not sure about radio transmissions from the Naval
> Observatory. It’s
> > >> possible that time signals from the Observatory went by wire
> to the
> > >> NBS/WWV
> > >> site which was not far away at that time. As I have been
> writing this,
> > >> Richard reports hearing time signals on NSS from Annapolis.
> Most likely
> > >> there was a wire from the DC observatory headquarters over
> to Annapolis.
> > >> And Mac reports hearing the voice time announcement. To See
> USNO time:
> > >>
> > >> Main Navy Time link:
> > >> http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ Click “Time†for the
> choices
> > >>
> > >> Simple web page numerical display:
> > >> http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/simpletime.html
> > >>
> > >> Animated GIF window:
> > >> http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/what1.html
> > >>
> > >> The voice by telephone service:
> > >> Time Voice Announcer, Washington, DC: 202-762-1401
> &
> > >> 202-762-1069
> > >> Time Voice Announcer, Colorado Springs, CO: 719-567-6742
> > >>
> > >> The Naval Observatory is in two places in DC. The
> headquarters is
> > >> within
> > >> sight of the Lincoln Memorial at the west end of the Mall.
> The
> > >> mechanical
> > >> clocks for Navy standard time were there, and the more
> modern
> > >> physics-based
> > >> ones may still be. The astronomical observatory was a few
> miles (maybe
> > >> 4
> > >> miles) off to the North, still within the District of
> Columbia I think.
> > >> The US Vice Presidents residence is there. There the
> now-ancient 24
> > >> (?)
> > >> inch refractor telescope is still in operating condition,
> and the
> > >> “Transit
> > >> Telescope†is also. This latter was still in use in the
> late 80’s when
> > >> I
> > >> visited there. It is precisely fixed in rotation in
> east-west angle but
> > >> moves easily in elevation. We watched the observer lie
> underneath it on
> > >> a
> > >> mechanics-like dolly and swing the telescope to watch a star
> transit the
> > >> scope’s center line, and push a button at the right
> instant. That time
> > >> mark, combined with much accurate calculation, and many more
> like it,
> > >> establishes the sidereal time. As I understand it, sidereal
> time
> > >> wanders a
> > >> bit with respect to UTC (or NIST-A) time but is still used
> for some
> > >> things.
> > >> More info is at: http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/sidereal.html
> “…
> > >> Astronomers use local sidereal time because it corresponds
> to the
> > >> coordinate right ascension of a celestial body that is
> presently on the
> > >> local meridian.†One of the very early transit telescopes
> was/is located
> > >> in
> > >> now-suburban Maryland in Rockville. The building is still
> there, but I
> > >> don’t know if the instrument is.
> > >>
> > >> The division of responsibility for time keeping is roughly:
> Military
> > >> purposes, Naval Observatory. Civilian and international
> purposes:
> > >> NIST/WWV. Naturally, the two organizations coordinate with
> each other.
> > >>
> > >> During the early years, the WWV time broadcasts came from
> Greenbelt,
> > >> MD,
> > >> just to the NE of the District. That all moved to Boulder
> CO, (in the
> > >> early 60’s I think). I remember hearing the time
> broadcasts from
> > >> Greenbelt, and have visited the Boulder facility. At the
> time of the
> > >> visit, there were three Master Clocks, made by HP I think,
> in operation
> > >> I
> > >> think there is a compare and vote system to eliminate one if
> it messes
> > >> up.
> > >> the voice that announces the time (and other things) is now
> solid state
> > >> memory/playback, but it used to be a drum magnetic recorder
> that was
> > >> played
> > >> automatically.
> > >>
> > >> The NIST Time and Frequency Division is part of the NIST
> Physics
> > >> Laboratory. The research and development of newer time
> standards goes
> > >> on
> > >> at Boulder. When I was there they had become able to get
> the “Fountain
> > >> Clock†to operate for some 20 minutes before it quit. No
> doubt by now
> > >> the’ve made considerable progress. The “Fountain
> Clock†was calculated
> > >> to
> > >> develop an error of a second in some gad zillions of years.
> It’s quite
> > >> possible that we won’t be here to notice the error.
> > >>
> > >> Time is a most interesting topic.
> > >>
> > >> Roy
> > >>
> > >> Roy Morgan
> > >> RoyMorgan at alum.mit.edu
> > >> K1LKY Since 1958
> > >>
> > >>
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