[AMRadio] FW: 220 vac line

Mon Jul 25 12:22:45 EDT 2011

Bob, we know some things are different in Virginia but electrons perform the
same there as they do elsewhere.  :>)
Your GFCI units are installed just like anyone else'.

A GFCI looks for any difference in current values between the hot and
neutral line as Paul said. No ground lead required for it to work. Of course
all outlets should have a ground lead connected no matter if it s a GFCI or
regular outlet.

If there is any leakage current to earth as in thru some ones body holding
an electric drill, then the value of current on the hot lead would be just
slightly more than the value of current on the neutral lead as part of the
return current is going through the body of the person holding the drill. In
other words now you have two paths for the return current. This unbalances
the current between hot and neutral monitored by the GFCI.

Having the regular ground lead connected to the socket is a plus as now if
there is a short or leakage of current from hot to the drill case the
leakage current will go thru the ground lead rather than thru some ones
body to ground. Again there is an unbalance of equal current between hot and
neutral (because of the second path) and the GFCI trips.

You could plug any 2 wire appliance into a GFCI, and if there was any
leakage from hot to the case of that appliance the leakage current would go
thru the body of the person holding it to earth and unbalance the hot
neutral balance and trip the GFCI. No wired ground connection involved.

73
Gary  K4FMX

> -----Original Message-----
> From: amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net [mailto:amradio-
> bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of rbethman
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:58 AM
> To: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service
> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] FW: 220 vac line
> 
> That would be at odds with the GFCIs installed in my house!
> 
> There is black for HOT, white for NEUTRAL, and *INDEED* bare for the
> ground pin of the *proper* three prong receptacles.
> 
> I'll add that I am in Virginia, AND when a contractor used a faulty
> electrical tool - The GFCI worked as it should have!
> 
> Bob - N0DGN
> 
> On 7/25/2011 11:33 AM, Paul Christensen wrote:
> > Ground is not used as the fault mechanism in a GFCI.  GFCI's are
> looking at
> > a current differential between 4 mA and 6mA between line and neutral
> > conductors only.  A GFCI, when correctly installed and working, will
> perform
> > it's job with only a two-wire line cord that uses only line and
> neutral, and
> > no ground conductor.
> >
> > Paul, W9AC
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Kerr"<skerr at trackersoft.com>
> > To:<amradio at mailman.qth.net>
> > Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 11:25 AM
> > Subject: [AMRadio] FW: 220 vac line
> >
> >
> >> As I remember -- GFI's look for small currents between Nuet and
> ground
> >> so connecting them anywhere but he main panel can disable the GFI
> >> circuits.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >> KE1RR
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net
> >> [mailto:amradio-bounces at mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of w4awm at aol.com
> >> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 10:21 AM
> >> To: amradio at mailman.qth.net
> >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] 220 vac line
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I have just been through this with the installation of new service
> >> panels at my home, cabin and cabin out building.  My electrician told
> me
> >> that if the installation of a 240V outlet is in an area that could be
> >> damp such as a garage, laundry room, basement, etc, the ground in
> >> addition to the neutral is required by NEC code. If you are using
> tool
> >> wire, you would use 2 black wires, for the hot side,  a green wire
> for
> >> ground and a white wire for neutral. In the case of romex, you would
> >> probably have a red, black, white and and a bare copper wire.  The
> red
> >> and black wires are hot, the white is neutral and the bare wire is
> >> ground. It makes sense to me that if you are installing a new outlet,
> it
> >> might be a good idea to go with the 4 wire installation.  That way if
> >> the code should change, you will most probably in compliance.
> >>
> >> As others have pointed out, neutran and ground wind up in the same
> place
> >> in the braker panel and in some new panels the 2 terminal strips are
> >> actually tied together at the factory.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >>
> >> John,  W4AWM
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Bernie Doran<qedconsultants at embarqmail.com>
> >> To: Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service
> >> <amradio at mailman.qth.net>
> >> Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2011 5:01 am
> >> Subject: Re: [AMRadio] 220 vac line
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Rick: if you are using a three wire receptacle, you have two 120
> volt
> >>
> >> egs ( 240)  and a neutral, so run the Neutral( ground)  to the white
> >> buss,
> >> hey are the same if both connected together but it looks cleaner that
> >> way.
> >> est is to run to a four wire recptacle, with two  grounds back ( one
> >> eutral and one ground)
> >> ---- Original Message -----
> >> rom: "Rick"<rickb at tx.rr.com>
> >> o: "'Discussion of AM Radio in the Amateur Service'"
> >> amradio at mailman.qth.net>
> >> ent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 9:43 PM
> >> ubject: [AMRadio] 220 vac line
> >>
> >> I'm sure this has been discussed but my memory refuses to let the
> info
> >> go.
> >> I
> >> am wiring a 220 VAC line into the new shack and I am uncertain about
> >> the
> >> neutral and ground wires. I installed a new sub panel complete with
> >> isolation buss bar for the neutral (white) wire from the 220 outlet.
> >> The
> >> new
> >> sub panel has the neutral buss bar grounded to the main panel ground
> >> buss
> >> bar. This is the way I understand it is supposed to be. The outlet I
> am
> >> installing is a 20 amp 3 wire (two hot, one ground) unit. My concern
> >> is,
> >> do
> >> I use the bare ground or the white neutral wire for the ground lug on
> >> the
> >> outlet? Also, do I simply leave the unused of the two (white or bare)
> >> disconnected in the new sub panel?
> >>
> >> Thanks for any assistance and advice.
> >>
> >> Rick / K5IAR
> >>
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> --
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> |               AM Amateur Radio Operator    NØDGN                 |
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> | Bob Bethman                \\\|///     " The absence of a danger |
> |                           \\ ~ ~ //      signal does *NOT* mean  |
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