[Alexandria Radio Club Reflector] Boat RF Ground plans, plus do you know if anyone has a battery cable crimper and cable cutter that I can use?

Fri May 28 20:29:51 EDT 2021

Phil et al,
I have been rummaging around in the stuff I brought off the boat from
Florida, and I have a cable cutter, never used on steel, a crimper, and a
solder pot for small stuff.  The crimper is the type that encloses the
terminal and then dents the barrel when whacked.  Not any good for finished
connections, but about right to hold the terminal in place while
soldering.  It works with 6 AWG up to 3/0 AWG.  All work, but they look
like they spent 20 years on a boat in Florida.  A suitable (but different)
crimper is available from Hamilton Marine Order #: 776759 for $30.  A
similar cable cutter to my old one is Klein Tools 63050 Cable Cutter which
also sells for $30.  The solder pot was bought on ebay.  You will also need
a propane torch, large size solder wire with flux core, paste flux, a vise
of some sort, and various small tools.  Remember, if you use a tool on your
boat, you will likely need that tool again.

That said, I am happy to loan these tools.  My boat is now the property of
a skilled marine engineer, with three small boys.  I won't be needing the
tools, although I would like to get them back eventually.  Problem is, I
live in Germantown now, a bit of a hike from Alexandria.  I plan to come to
club meetings when they resume.  Or I could have them delivered by a
uniformed government employee.  Or you could bring the materials and the
measurements up here and we could spend a day making up the wires.  I did
this for a friend who built a trimaran, and it took an afternoon to solder
up all his primary and engine wiring.  He installed it on the boat himself.

I used to get my wire from Skycraft in Orlando.  They are a surplus outfit
and they sell a lot of leftovers from the space industry.  Very good
quality wire is available cheaply.  Currently their website is offline,
hope they will be back soon.  They don't have marine wire specifically.  My
former boat is wired with leftover shuttle wire, all white, and I mark the
wires at each end with colored tape and clear shrink at both ends.
Caveat:  Occasionally they sell nickel coated wire in place of tinned.
This works with crimping but cannot be soldered.  Just ask.

Hope this helps.  Good Luck.

Doug Rose
AK4QY

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 12:56 PM Ian <iann8ik at gmail.com> wrote:

> The voice of experience speaks!  Yes, I also crimp, but then solder.  In
> the marine world, crimping makes it ABYC-compliant but soldering guarantees
> the connection.
> 73, Ian N8IK
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 12:29 PM dougmrose <dougmrose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Phil,
>> You have tapped into a world of expertise, but as a lifetime boat owner
>> in Florida, the graveyard of wiring, perhaps I can add a few thoughts.
>>
>> First, forget crimping.  It is useless around salt water.  There are two
>> problems:  First, unless done expertly, crimping damages the wire at the
>> point where it exits the crimp, and even if it is reinforced by shrink
>> tubing, it often separates there.  Second, no matter what you put over the
>> crimp, it is not gastight and the connection will corrode.  Particularly
>> bad are the crimp eyes with a permanent plastic cover.  The tool cannot
>> crimp well through the plastic and the crimp is not tight.  Remember, the
>> plastic or shrink cover is there to provide a color code, it does not aid
>> the connection.
>>
>> Solder everything.  I solder small wires (AWG 10 and smaller) by using
>> solder terminals and lightly crimping them onto the wire (so it doesn't
>> fall off) and dipping them into a solder pot, up to the wire insulation.  A
>> small gap between terminal and wire insulation allows inspection of the
>> joint.  The same gap ensures that the shrink tubing doesn't slide off,
>> since it shrinks more at the gap, and won't move.  Solder flows up the
>> strands of the wire and reinforces it until well up under the insulation.
>> I like to use clear shrink tubing, which lets me wrap the terminal joint
>> with tape of the correct color, and then shrink over it all with clear.
>> The solder, however, is all that is required to ensure a working joint.
>>
>> It is not clear to me whether you are planning to use 4 AWG or 4/0, which
>> is quite a bit larger.  I used 4/0 on my boat, because it was going to
>> start Perkins 6-354 diesels, but I assume 4 AWG would start a smaller gas
>> engine nicely.  It is easy to solder this stuff using solder terminals.
>> Strip the wire and push it into the terminal along with some paste flux.
>> Heat with a propane torch, heating the terminal but staying away from the
>> wire.  Feed the solder between the bare wire and the terminal, and heat
>> until you are melting the solder on the wire itself.  Many solder terminals
>> have a small inspection hole at the eye end, and that will tell you when
>> you are done.  Remember, solder is drawn toward the heat, don't solder just
>> at the inspection hole.
>>
>> After the flux residue is removed, use liquid tape or real electrical
>> tape to seal the gap between terminal and wire, and then color code and
>> apply  the shrink.  Heavy wires on boats are often made from small stuff,
>> to retain flexibility.  I have seen welding cable used.  This gives you a
>> huge surface area of copper and any salt intrusion is death.
>>
>> Finally, crimp technology is expensive.  Terminals and wire must be a
>> good match, and they charge accordingly.  The tools are very costly.  All
>> to save a little time in production.  Solder terminals are cheap, the
>> solder will take up any slack, and the connections are solid metal.  In
>> short, crimp is for companies.  Solder is for those of us doing small jobs,
>> like a single boat.
>>
>> Just for the record, my cabin cruiser went over 20 years in Florida with
>> no problems.  My friend Rick Goltz circumnavigated without electrical
>> problems.  He took my advice and soldered everything.  And, finally, in my
>> career launching rockets, we found that after the bird had been on the pad
>> for six or eight weeks, it would start to get wiring failures caused by bad
>> crimps.  And you cannot compete with the boys in California, their top
>> notch equipment, layers of quality control, and their dry climate.
>>
>> Sorry to be so long winded.  But contact me if you have any questions or
>> need anything.
>>
>> Doug Rose
>> AK4QY
>>
>> By the way, the little round photo is me at the helm of a Chris Craft
>> cabin cruiser.  It was 1950.  I was five.
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 7:12 AM Philip Brown <phil at pjb3.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Great!
>>>
>>> I’m still working in my wiring plan (draft attached), including figuring
>>> out what size wire to use for different runs.
>>> While I don’t want to undersize anything, I’ll have to make the classic
>>> tradeoff between size and cost.
>>>
>>> All wiring will be tinned aluminum.
>>>
>>> Also,  I’ve found a company www.batterycablesusa.com <
>>> http://www.batterycablesusa.com/>, that has  very competitive prices
>>> for wires, and for a little less than $2 per connection they
>>> will crimp on a lug of your choice and heat shrink it…. so I’m looking
>>> at plans and budgets, but I’m tempted to let the pros do the crimping and
>>> heating since they
>>> likely have hydraulic crimpers and other professional grade tools.
>>>
>>> Thank you Jack W4JJ.
>>>
>>> I will reach out to you and/or Don if I end up crimping my own cables.
>>> (Don has some tools too).
>>>
>>> A preview of my plans are attached, but they are still a work in
>>> progress, and once I’m done I’ll probably ask for some input from the more
>>> experiences hams.
>>>
>>> I’m rewiring the whole boat, including moving the battery forward from
>>> the stern to under the passenger seat much closer to the bow, and also
>>> adding a 2nd battery and an automatic charge relay that keeps the batteries
>>> isolated except when the one of them is being charged, then the unit
>>> connects them in parallel so that both batteries charge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>>      -Philip,  W3PJB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On May 27, 2021, at 5:01 PM, W4JJ <jackparker at w4jj.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Yes, I have one that should work.
>>> >
>>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >
>>> >> On May 27, 2021, at 1:32 PM, Ian <iann8ik at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyone have a crimping tool to handle 4ga battery cable?
>>> >> 73, Ian N8IK
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>>> >> From: Philip Brown <phil at pjb3.com>
>>> >> Date: Wed, May 26, 2021 at 9:22 PM
>>> >> Subject: Boat RF Ground plans, plus do you know if anyone has a
>>> battery
>>> >> cable crimper and cable cutter that I can use?
>>> >> To: Ian Keith <n8ik at arrl.net>, Don (KI4D) <don.ki4d at gmail.com>
>>> >> Cc: Philip J Brown III <phil at pjb3.com>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Hello Ian,
>>> >>
>>> >> (Don,  I’m CC’ing as an FYI… since you’re clearly interested in
>>> everything
>>> >> RF ! :-)     )
>>> >>
>>> >> Do you know if anyone in the club has a battery cable crimper that I
>>> can
>>> >> borrow?
>>> >> Is there any way that you could pose the question to the membership?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I’m planning to run some 4 Gauge tinned copper wires in both the boat
>>> and
>>> >> the 4Runner, and once I crimp and heat-shrink the cables
>>> >> I’d have no use for a crimper or a cable cutter of that size…  not to
>>> >> mention that this project is starting to get **expensive**  !!  :-)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Here’s the update on my plans for an RF ground for the boat, and also
>>> for
>>> >> my 4Runner.
>>> >>
>>> >> *Any feedback from you, Don or an Elmer would be warmly welcomed.
>>> :-)*
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> I found a part on craig’s list for $45 and bought it today — New old
>>> >> stock…. basically someone bought it and never used.
>>> >> Westmarine sells the same part new for $109.   The manufacturer
>>> claims it
>>> >> has the same effect as 12 sqft of copper foil.
>>> >>
>>> >> It’s cool.  It’s extremely pourous bronze that is specially bonded
>>> together
>>> >> to act as an electrical and RF ground.  You bolt it to the bottom
>>> >> of your boat, and connect the ground wire to a gold plated bolt using
>>> gold
>>> >> plated nuts that are provided.
>>> >>
>>> >> It also protects the boat from lightning strikes by offering a
>>> high-current
>>> >> path to ground.
>>> >> It has some type of silver conductive paste that’s dried out in the
>>> box for
>>> >> my unit… I could probably use a small amount if anyone has a tube of
>>> that
>>> >> as well.
>>> >>
>>> >> The guy who I bought mine from said that his boat had a lighting
>>> strike
>>> >> while at the dock, and while it destroyed his dynaplate and fried his
>>> >> electronics,
>>> >> it didn’t blow-out his through-hull transducer, which he said is a
>>> common
>>> >> problem that leaves a hole in the hull that sinks many boats.
>>> >>
>>> >> This is pretty cool, and all new to me, but I find it exciting!
>>> >>
>>> >> I’m planning to use one of these
>>> >> as my “common RF ground” point for the boat, and another one for the
>>> >> 4Runner.
>>> >> I’m planning to run a  4 gauge copper tinned cable from this ground
>>> to the
>>> >> dynaplate on the boat, and to the vehicles body near the battery
>>> ground
>>> >> on the 4Runner.
>>> >>
>>> >> From Westmarine:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>  1. Marine Electronics <https://www.westmarine.com/marine-electronics>
>>> /
>>> >>  2. Marine Communication <
>>> https://www.westmarine.com/marine-communication>
>>> >>   /
>>> >>  3. VHF Accessories <https://www.westmarine.com/vhf-accessories> /
>>> >>  4. Grounding <https://www.westmarine.com/grounding>
>>> >>
>>> >> [image: Dynaplate, Bonding Use]larged view of picture, opens
>>> dialimages
>>> >> carousel, showing slide 1 of 1
>>> >> GUEST <https://www.westmarine.com/guest>–Dynaplate, Bonding Use
>>> >> 0 stars, 0 reviews, skips to reviews
>>> >> $109.99
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Model # 377010 | Mfg # 4008
>>> >> SpecsDynaplate, Bonding Use
>>> >> NameValue
>>> >> Type Ground Plates
>>> >> Product Overview
>>> >>
>>> >> Bronze grounding plates replace yards of copper foil. Looks like a
>>> solid
>>> >> bronze plate, but actually a porous matrix of bronze spheres,
>>> presenting
>>> >> the same effective electrical surface as a much larger expanse of
>>> copper
>>> >> foil. Use as electronic ground for SSBs, Lorans and ham transceivers,
>>> or as
>>> >> a ground reference in bonding systems. Includes gold-plated bronze
>>> flathead
>>> >> fasteners and silver contact paste for superior conductivity. Plates
>>> have
>>> >> tapered ends and rounded edges for reduced turbulence.
>>> >>
>>> >> Standard Dynaplate
>>> >> Part No. 4006
>>> >> Dimensions: 6.0"W x 2.0" H x 0.50" D
>>> >> Mounting Holes: 2-1/2" center to center
>>> >> Mounting Hardware:1-3" Gold plated bolt and nut, 1-3" Bronze bolt and
>>> nut,
>>> >> 3 copper washers
>>> >> Weight: 3 Lbs.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>  - Use for basic bonding and grounding
>>> >>  - Improves performance of electronics and reduces RF interference
>>> >>  - Offers the best path for hull bonding without long runs of copper
>>> foil
>>> >>  - Equivalent to 12 square feet of copper foil
>>> >>  - Provides a direct, low resistance path for improved lighting
>>> protection
>>> >>  - Deters electrolysis and galvanic corrosion
>>> >>  - Sintered porous bronze sphere construction for maximum
>>> conductivity in
>>> >>  a compact size
>>> >>  - Low drag, non fouling shape
>>> >>  - Easy to install
>>> >>  - Easy to clean with wire brush
>>> >>  - Conforms to ABYC standards
>>> >>
>>> >> From the installation instructions:
>>> >> ______________________________________________________________
>>> >> AlexandriaRadioClub mailing list
>>> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/alexandriaradioclub
>>> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> >> Post: mailto:AlexandriaRadioClub at mailman.qth.net
>>> >>
>>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> > ______________________________________________________________
>>> > AlexandriaRadioClub mailing list
>>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/alexandriaradioclub
>>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> > Post: mailto:AlexandriaRadioClub at mailman.qth.net
>>> >
>>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> AlexandriaRadioClub mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/alexandriaradioclub
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:AlexandriaRadioClub at mailman.qth.net
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> . . . . ._\\|//_
>> . . . . .[-o-o-]
>> ---ooO-[_]-Ooo------
>> . . . .Doug Rose
>> dougmrose at gmail.com
>> . . 301 916 1593
>> --------------------
>> . . . . . ||   ||
>> . . . ooO   Ooo
>>
>>

-- 
. . . . ._\\|//_
. . . . .[-o-o-]
---ooO-[_]-Ooo------
. . . .Doug Rose
dougmrose at gmail.com
. . 301 916 1593
--------------------
. . . . . ||   ||
. . . ooO   Ooo