[Alexandria Radio Club Reflector] Boat RF Ground plans, plus do you know if anyone has a battery cable crimper and cable cutter that I can use?

Fri May 28 12:56:36 EDT 2021

The voice of experience speaks!  Yes, I also crimp, but then solder.  In
the marine world, crimping makes it ABYC-compliant but soldering guarantees
the connection.
73, Ian N8IK

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 12:29 PM dougmrose <dougmrose at gmail.com> wrote:

> Phil,
> You have tapped into a world of expertise, but as a lifetime boat owner in
> Florida, the graveyard of wiring, perhaps I can add a few thoughts.
>
> First, forget crimping.  It is useless around salt water.  There are two
> problems:  First, unless done expertly, crimping damages the wire at the
> point where it exits the crimp, and even if it is reinforced by shrink
> tubing, it often separates there.  Second, no matter what you put over the
> crimp, it is not gastight and the connection will corrode.  Particularly
> bad are the crimp eyes with a permanent plastic cover.  The tool cannot
> crimp well through the plastic and the crimp is not tight.  Remember, the
> plastic or shrink cover is there to provide a color code, it does not aid
> the connection.
>
> Solder everything.  I solder small wires (AWG 10 and smaller) by using
> solder terminals and lightly crimping them onto the wire (so it doesn't
> fall off) and dipping them into a solder pot, up to the wire insulation.  A
> small gap between terminal and wire insulation allows inspection of the
> joint.  The same gap ensures that the shrink tubing doesn't slide off,
> since it shrinks more at the gap, and won't move.  Solder flows up the
> strands of the wire and reinforces it until well up under the insulation.
> I like to use clear shrink tubing, which lets me wrap the terminal joint
> with tape of the correct color, and then shrink over it all with clear.
> The solder, however, is all that is required to ensure a working joint.
>
> It is not clear to me whether you are planning to use 4 AWG or 4/0, which
> is quite a bit larger.  I used 4/0 on my boat, because it was going to
> start Perkins 6-354 diesels, but I assume 4 AWG would start a smaller gas
> engine nicely.  It is easy to solder this stuff using solder terminals.
> Strip the wire and push it into the terminal along with some paste flux.
> Heat with a propane torch, heating the terminal but staying away from the
> wire.  Feed the solder between the bare wire and the terminal, and heat
> until you are melting the solder on the wire itself.  Many solder terminals
> have a small inspection hole at the eye end, and that will tell you when
> you are done.  Remember, solder is drawn toward the heat, don't solder just
> at the inspection hole.
>
> After the flux residue is removed, use liquid tape or real electrical tape
> to seal the gap between terminal and wire, and then color code and apply
> the shrink.  Heavy wires on boats are often made from small stuff, to
> retain flexibility.  I have seen welding cable used.  This gives you a huge
> surface area of copper and any salt intrusion is death.
>
> Finally, crimp technology is expensive.  Terminals and wire must be a good
> match, and they charge accordingly.  The tools are very costly.  All to
> save a little time in production.  Solder terminals are cheap, the solder
> will take up any slack, and the connections are solid metal.  In short,
> crimp is for companies.  Solder is for those of us doing small jobs, like a
> single boat.
>
> Just for the record, my cabin cruiser went over 20 years in Florida with
> no problems.  My friend Rick Goltz circumnavigated without electrical
> problems.  He took my advice and soldered everything.  And, finally, in my
> career launching rockets, we found that after the bird had been on the pad
> for six or eight weeks, it would start to get wiring failures caused by bad
> crimps.  And you cannot compete with the boys in California, their top
> notch equipment, layers of quality control, and their dry climate.
>
> Sorry to be so long winded.  But contact me if you have any questions or
> need anything.
>
> Doug Rose
> AK4QY
>
> By the way, the little round photo is me at the helm of a Chris Craft
> cabin cruiser.  It was 1950.  I was five.
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 7:12 AM Philip Brown <phil at pjb3.com> wrote:
>
>> Great!
>>
>> I’m still working in my wiring plan (draft attached), including figuring
>> out what size wire to use for different runs.
>> While I don’t want to undersize anything, I’ll have to make the classic
>> tradeoff between size and cost.
>>
>> All wiring will be tinned aluminum.
>>
>> Also,  I’ve found a company www.batterycablesusa.com <
>> http://www.batterycablesusa.com/>, that has  very competitive prices for
>> wires, and for a little less than $2 per connection they
>> will crimp on a lug of your choice and heat shrink it…. so I’m looking at
>> plans and budgets, but I’m tempted to let the pros do the crimping and
>> heating since they
>> likely have hydraulic crimpers and other professional grade tools.
>>
>> Thank you Jack W4JJ.
>>
>> I will reach out to you and/or Don if I end up crimping my own cables.
>> (Don has some tools too).
>>
>> A preview of my plans are attached, but they are still a work in
>> progress, and once I’m done I’ll probably ask for some input from the more
>> experiences hams.
>>
>> I’m rewiring the whole boat, including moving the battery forward from
>> the stern to under the passenger seat much closer to the bow, and also
>> adding a 2nd battery and an automatic charge relay that keeps the batteries
>> isolated except when the one of them is being charged, then the unit
>> connects them in parallel so that both batteries charge.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 73
>>
>>      -Philip,  W3PJB
>>
>>
>>
>> > On May 27, 2021, at 5:01 PM, W4JJ <jackparker at w4jj.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Yes, I have one that should work.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >
>> >> On May 27, 2021, at 1:32 PM, Ian <iann8ik at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Anyone have a crimping tool to handle 4ga battery cable?
>> >> 73, Ian N8IK
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> >> From: Philip Brown <phil at pjb3.com>
>> >> Date: Wed, May 26, 2021 at 9:22 PM
>> >> Subject: Boat RF Ground plans, plus do you know if anyone has a battery
>> >> cable crimper and cable cutter that I can use?
>> >> To: Ian Keith <n8ik at arrl.net>, Don (KI4D) <don.ki4d at gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: Philip J Brown III <phil at pjb3.com>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hello Ian,
>> >>
>> >> (Don,  I’m CC’ing as an FYI… since you’re clearly interested in
>> everything
>> >> RF ! :-)     )
>> >>
>> >> Do you know if anyone in the club has a battery cable crimper that I
>> can
>> >> borrow?
>> >> Is there any way that you could pose the question to the membership?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I’m planning to run some 4 Gauge tinned copper wires in both the boat
>> and
>> >> the 4Runner, and once I crimp and heat-shrink the cables
>> >> I’d have no use for a crimper or a cable cutter of that size…  not to
>> >> mention that this project is starting to get **expensive**  !!  :-)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Here’s the update on my plans for an RF ground for the boat, and also
>> for
>> >> my 4Runner.
>> >>
>> >> *Any feedback from you, Don or an Elmer would be warmly welcomed.  :-)*
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I found a part on craig’s list for $45 and bought it today — New old
>> >> stock…. basically someone bought it and never used.
>> >> Westmarine sells the same part new for $109.   The manufacturer claims
>> it
>> >> has the same effect as 12 sqft of copper foil.
>> >>
>> >> It’s cool.  It’s extremely pourous bronze that is specially bonded
>> together
>> >> to act as an electrical and RF ground.  You bolt it to the bottom
>> >> of your boat, and connect the ground wire to a gold plated bolt using
>> gold
>> >> plated nuts that are provided.
>> >>
>> >> It also protects the boat from lightning strikes by offering a
>> high-current
>> >> path to ground.
>> >> It has some type of silver conductive paste that’s dried out in the
>> box for
>> >> my unit… I could probably use a small amount if anyone has a tube of
>> that
>> >> as well.
>> >>
>> >> The guy who I bought mine from said that his boat had a lighting strike
>> >> while at the dock, and while it destroyed his dynaplate and fried his
>> >> electronics,
>> >> it didn’t blow-out his through-hull transducer, which he said is a
>> common
>> >> problem that leaves a hole in the hull that sinks many boats.
>> >>
>> >> This is pretty cool, and all new to me, but I find it exciting!
>> >>
>> >> I’m planning to use one of these
>> >> as my “common RF ground” point for the boat, and another one for the
>> >> 4Runner.
>> >> I’m planning to run a  4 gauge copper tinned cable from this ground to
>> the
>> >> dynaplate on the boat, and to the vehicles body near the battery ground
>> >> on the 4Runner.
>> >>
>> >> From Westmarine:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  1. Marine Electronics <https://www.westmarine.com/marine-electronics>
>> /
>> >>  2. Marine Communication <
>> https://www.westmarine.com/marine-communication>
>> >>   /
>> >>  3. VHF Accessories <https://www.westmarine.com/vhf-accessories> /
>> >>  4. Grounding <https://www.westmarine.com/grounding>
>> >>
>> >> [image: Dynaplate, Bonding Use]larged view of picture, opens dialimages
>> >> carousel, showing slide 1 of 1
>> >> GUEST <https://www.westmarine.com/guest>–Dynaplate, Bonding Use
>> >> 0 stars, 0 reviews, skips to reviews
>> >> $109.99
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Model # 377010 | Mfg # 4008
>> >> SpecsDynaplate, Bonding Use
>> >> NameValue
>> >> Type Ground Plates
>> >> Product Overview
>> >>
>> >> Bronze grounding plates replace yards of copper foil. Looks like a
>> solid
>> >> bronze plate, but actually a porous matrix of bronze spheres,
>> presenting
>> >> the same effective electrical surface as a much larger expanse of
>> copper
>> >> foil. Use as electronic ground for SSBs, Lorans and ham transceivers,
>> or as
>> >> a ground reference in bonding systems. Includes gold-plated bronze
>> flathead
>> >> fasteners and silver contact paste for superior conductivity. Plates
>> have
>> >> tapered ends and rounded edges for reduced turbulence.
>> >>
>> >> Standard Dynaplate
>> >> Part No. 4006
>> >> Dimensions: 6.0"W x 2.0" H x 0.50" D
>> >> Mounting Holes: 2-1/2" center to center
>> >> Mounting Hardware:1-3" Gold plated bolt and nut, 1-3" Bronze bolt and
>> nut,
>> >> 3 copper washers
>> >> Weight: 3 Lbs.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>  - Use for basic bonding and grounding
>> >>  - Improves performance of electronics and reduces RF interference
>> >>  - Offers the best path for hull bonding without long runs of copper
>> foil
>> >>  - Equivalent to 12 square feet of copper foil
>> >>  - Provides a direct, low resistance path for improved lighting
>> protection
>> >>  - Deters electrolysis and galvanic corrosion
>> >>  - Sintered porous bronze sphere construction for maximum conductivity
>> in
>> >>  a compact size
>> >>  - Low drag, non fouling shape
>> >>  - Easy to install
>> >>  - Easy to clean with wire brush
>> >>  - Conforms to ABYC standards
>> >>
>> >> From the installation instructions:
>> >> ______________________________________________________________
>> >> AlexandriaRadioClub mailing list
>> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/alexandriaradioclub
>> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> >> Post: mailto:AlexandriaRadioClub at mailman.qth.net
>> >>
>> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > AlexandriaRadioClub mailing list
>> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/alexandriaradioclub
>> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> > Post: mailto:AlexandriaRadioClub at mailman.qth.net
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> AlexandriaRadioClub mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/alexandriaradioclub
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:AlexandriaRadioClub at mailman.qth.net
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
> --
> . . . . ._\\|//_
> . . . . .[-o-o-]
> ---ooO-[_]-Ooo------
> . . . .Doug Rose
> dougmrose at gmail.com
> . . 301 916 1593
> --------------------
> . . . . . ||   ||
> . . . ooO   Ooo
>
>