[50mhz] [Moon-Net] 6m update from KH8/W7GJ

Fri Jul 25 03:15:59 EDT 2014

Not exactly Craig. Read again what Lance says.

"The decision to have stations call with OOO if they are copying me in the
previous sequence was made 

> because it was the only way I could get both calls AND the information 

> as to which stations were copying at that time."

Stations are calling if they hear him NOT on the off chance they might
hear/see him. 

That said I'm sure some will call without seeing his signal and if Lance
responds to them and they don't answer within a set period Lance moves on.
That of course wastes valuable time and is discouraged.

When I go to a rare grid and operate meteor scatter I operate in a similar
fashion. More like what I call contest or pileup mode. If you see me call me
and keep calling until I work you. I can decode multiple stations off a
single meteor burst and while I'm working one station I'm also writing down
calls of stations of stations I'm decoding. I just work my way through the
list until no one else is calling at which time I start to CQ again.

When Dennis K7BV and I went to CM93 a couple of years ago I was the first to
get active. I sent one "test" just to make sure things were working
correctly. Folks knew what QRG I use and were watching/waiting. That simple
one sequence "test" was all it took and in the next hour I worked 45
stations without calling single CQ. Folks knew the procedure I use and made
good use of it. Some didn't so their contact took a tad longer but all in
all my style works for me the same as Lance's works for him.

Glad though this is starting to make sense Craig.

Take care,

Barry KS7DX  

-----Original Message-----
From: moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com
[mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com] On Behalf Of Craig
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 07:11 PM
To: w7gj at q.com; Russ K2TXB; 'Paul Kiesel'; 'Magic Band EME Group';
'Moon-Net'; FFMA at yahoogroups.com; '50mhz'; 'WSJT Group'
Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] 6m update from KH8/W7GJ

Ding !  and the light bulb in my head comes on. Thanks Lance.

This thread has been confusing and I think I know why. It's a 'mind-set' 

issue. Some of us who have been on EME for decades still think in terms of
CW and SSB protocols and operating techniques. When writers mentioned
stations calling Lance w/o hearing/copying him, I'm like..whaaat ??

So the master, Lance, puts it in perspective. Evidently on the digital
modes, stations call someone BEFORE  they actually hear/copy them ! This is
totally foreign to my way of operating; and I suspect from reading the
thread that I'm not the only one. Stations are calling Lance before even
copying him. In the old way of thinking; that's nuts !

And even with Internet postings and live chat; how would one know the exact
frequency to call on ?  But now that's an outdated thought process
evidently.

With digital, stations KNOW exactly what frequency the other guy is on; they
KNOW his sequence, they KNOW his exact call (and prefix). So why not go
ahead and call and hope that he will see and decode your signal out of the
mess.

All of a sudden, thanks to Lance's explanation; it finally makes sense.

Craig,

N8DJB

--------------------------------------------------

From: "Lance Collister, W7GJ" < <mailto:w7gj at q.com> w7gj at q.com>

Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2014 5:38 PM

To: "Russ K2TXB" < <mailto:k2txb at dxcc.com> k2txb at dxcc.com>; "'Paul Kiesel'"
< <mailto:k7cw at yahoo.com> k7cw at yahoo.com>; "'Magic Band EME Group'" <
<mailto:MagicEME at googlegroups.com> MagicEME at googlegroups.com>; "'Moon-Net'" 

< <mailto:moon-net at mailman.pe1itr.com> moon-net at mailman.pe1itr.com>; <
<mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com> FFMA at yahoogroups.com>; "'50mhz'" 

< <mailto:50mhz at mailman.qth.net> 50mhz at mailman.qth.net>; "'WSJT Group'" <
<mailto:wsjtgroup at yahoogroups.com> wsjtgroup at yahoogroups.com>

Subject: Re: [Moon-Net] 6m update from KH8/W7GJ

> Hi Russ,

> 

> The reason I adopted the revised procedure for callers was so I could 

> tell which callers are copying me, and try to complete with them 

> first. This is the way I have been able to quickly work a number of 

> stations on my 6m EME DXpeditions, where most of the stations are 

> extremely weak, many stations are horizon-only (limiting their 

> potential moon time to a couple sharp ground gain lobes) and the 

> Faraday rotation can be very slow ( locking out stations for long 

> periods of time). Spending a long time calling stations who do not 

> copy you is counter productive and unnecessarily prevents contacts 

> with other stations with whom 3 minute exchanges would be possible.

> 

> On all but one of my six 50 MHz EME DXpeditions, I have not had any 

> internet access, and I don't plan on having any such access on future 

> 6m EME DXpeditions either.

> Therefore, I can't operate JT65 as many people on some bands do, 

> replying to stations that report via the internet that they are 

> copying them! My operations are much more "random" and are completely 

> based on actual radio contacts. The decision to have stations call 

> with OOO if they are copying me in the previous sequence was made 

> because it was the only way I could get both calls AND the information 

> as to which stations were copying at that time. Since I treat such a 

> call as a call with callsigns only, my responses are always either 

> calls and OOO or final RRR (in strict accordance with the time honored 

> EME contact protocol).

> 

> In response to your comment, this protocol is far from "secret", and I 

> have been encouraging all callers to use it on each of my 6m EME 

> DXpeditions if they have any interest on working me from a new DXCC. I 

> don't have the luxury of having many strong stations to work, with 

> lots of "extra margin" to make up for polarity mismatch. Nor do I have 

> the luxury of cross polarization or circular polarization on 6m.

> This is

> the best solution I have found for me on my 6m EME DXpeditions, and 

> the proof is in the pudding. I am up to 64 stations logged on 6m EME 

> up to this point, far exceeding my other records for stations worked 

> on such DXpeditions....and I still have one more weekend left to go. I 

> am happy to be able to provide a rare DXCC for serious 6m EME 

> operators around the world, and greatly appreciate their willingness 

> to learn and follow this most productive procedure.

> 

> GL and VY 73, Lance

> 

> On 7/20/2014 7:49 PM, Russ K2TXB wrote:

>> 

>> Hello Paul. Well I did not realize it was only a six meter thing. I 

>> still do not really like the idea of having a 'secret protocol', 

>> available to only those who read his web page or if he happens to 

>> mention it on moon net. However I am not on six meters and so really 

>> have nothing more to say about it. I thought it was the same 

>> expedition as ZL1RS/KH8 and thus that the comment was for 2 meters 

>> too.

>> 

>> Sorry about that,

>> 

>> 73, Russ

>> 

>> *From:*Paul Kiesel [ <mailto:k7cw at yahoo.com> mailto:k7cw at yahoo.com]

>> *Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2014 2:36 PM

>> *To:* Russ K2TXB;  <mailto:w7gj at q.com> w7gj at q.com; 'Magic Band EME
Group'; 'Moon-Net'; 

>>  <mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com> FFMA at yahoogroups.com; '50mhz'; 'WSJT
Group'

>> *Subject:* Re: [Moon-Net] 6m update from KH8/W7GJ

>> 

>> He's been using it for years and it works fine for him and us.

>> 

>> K7CW

>> 

>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------

>> ----------------

>> 

>> *From:*Russ K2TXB < <mailto:k2txb at dxcc.com%20%3cmailto:k2txb at dxcc.com>
k2txb at dxcc.com <mailto:k2txb at dxcc.com>>

>> *To:*  <mailto:w7gj at q.com> w7gj at q.com < <mailto:w7gj at q.com>
mailto:w7gj at q.com>; 'Magic Band EME Group'

>> <
<mailto:MagicEME at googlegroups.com%20%3cmailto:MagicEME at googlegroups.com>
MagicEME at googlegroups.com <mailto:MagicEME at googlegroups.com>>;

>> 'Moon-Net'

>> <
<mailto:moon-net at mailman.pe1itr.com%20%3cmailto:moon-net at mailman.pe1itr.com>
moon-net at mailman.pe1itr.com <mailto:moon-net at mailman.pe1itr.com>>;

>>  <mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com> FFMA at yahoogroups.com <
<mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com> mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com>; '50mhz' 

>> <50mhz at mailman.qth.net

>> < <mailto:50mhz at mailman.qth.net> mailto:50mhz at mailman.qth.net>>; 'WSJT
Group' 

>> <
<mailto:wsjtgroup at yahoogroups.com%20%3cmailto:wsjtgroup at yahoogroups.com>
wsjtgroup at yahoogroups.com <mailto:wsjtgroup at yahoogroups.com>>

>> *Sent:* Friday, July 18, 2014 11:15 AM

>> *Subject:* Re: [Moon-Net] 6m update from KH8/W7GJ

>> 

>> 

>> > If you are copying me and only sending calls, don't be surprised if 

>> > I

>> answer someone else before I test the waters with you!

>> 

>> Say What? Standard procedure is NOT to send reports until you have 

>> received both his call and your own call. Until then why would anyone 

>> send anything but both calls? Please do not invent your own 

>> procedure... Too much confusion for all.

>> 

>> 73, Russ K2TXB

>> 

>> 

>> -----Original Message-----

>> From:  <mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com>
moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com

>> < <mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com>
mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com>

>> [mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com

>> < <mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com>
mailto:moon-net-bounces at mailman.pe1itr.com>] On Behalf Of Lance 

>> Collister, W7GJ

>> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 12:04 AM

>> To: Magic Band EME Group; Moon-Net;  <mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com>
FFMA at yahoogroups.com 

>> < <mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com> mailto:FFMA at yahoogroups.com>; 50mhz; WSJT
Group

>> Subject: [Moon-Net] 6m update from KH8/W7GJ

>> 

>> 

>> Hello! I have included updates from my KH8 6m DXpedition web page below:

>> 

>> 

>> July 13, 2014 - First moon pass, and the first ever EME from KH8. Lots of

>> fun having

>> so many ground gain lobes from being so high above the sea! Also was nice

>> to have

>> visual aiming until around 1000Z, when a front came in and totally socked

>> us

>> in :-( Degradation was -3.4 dB today, so it is nice to get so many in the

>> log (including a number of single yagi stations) before cndx peak! Worked

>> the following stations before heading home to take a shower and get some

>> sleep: KG7H, K2ZD, N3XX, W6BBS, N6BBS, N7NW, K7CW, NN7J, VE1JF, N3CXV.

>> Also copied but did not work: W7MEM, N6RMJ, K6EME, W4IMD , WA4NJP and 

>> W4CSW.

>> Please spread the word for people to follow the QSO protocol listed on my

>> website. I will first call people who are copying me. If you are copying

>> me and only sending calls, don't be surprised if I answer someone else

>> before I test the waters with you! Because the air conditioning failed

>> here, the

>> power supply overheated and ailed to work at all.

>> July 14, 2014 - After a return trip to the site to further diagnose the

>> problem, it turned out that the power supply simply shutting down due to

>> excessive internal

>> heating. We brought back a portable house fan to mount directly in front

>> of the

>> power supply, and opened up the room's windows and door to increase air

>> movement.

>> Both operators and the power supply performed much better ;-) During the

>> second moon pass, it started out totally overcast and raining, but later 

>> the

>> moon was visible,

>> providing the reassurance of visual aiming. I exchanged call signs with

>> G8BCG, but

>> since the common moon window was only minutes, we failed to complete.

>> Others heard

>> but not worked were K6EME, ZL2NW, KD7YZ, W8PAT, N8JX, VE3KH, W4CSW, OA4TT

>> and W7IUV.

>> Stations worked were W7MEM, K4ZOT, WA4NJP, and W7JW, bringing the total

>> after two moon passes to 14. At dawn we had a tremendous local noise come

>> up (just an hour

>> before our moonset), that made it impossible to work anyone. We were

>> unable to

>> locate this noise, but suspect it may be something built into the 

>> extensive

>> solar

>> array at the operating site. We will continue to make efforts to resolve

>> this noise

>> problem, but if you have any choice, please try to work us earlier in the

>> month, when we have common moon before our local sunrise ( around 17300Z)

>> ,

>> since we may not be able to be successful during our moonset. Again, I 

>> ask

>> that anyone interested in completing with me here, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE 

>> READ

>> MY QSO PROCEDURES on my KH8 DXpedition page:

>>  <http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/AmericanSamoa2014.htm>
http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj/AmericanSamoa2014.htm ! Please 

>> understand

>> that I will first answer people who are actually copying me, and the only

>> way to do this is if everyone understands the proper procedure I am using

>> here....do NOT just call me with calls if you are seeing my trace at that

>> time.

>> 

>> REMINDER - I can only elevate my single yagi to 60 degrees! If you have

>> elevation,

>> or are in EU, please try to call me when my moon is much lower. When the

>> moon is

>> above 60 degrees, I try to give priority to horizon-only stations in 

>> Region

>> 2, who only have that chance available to them.

>> 

>> It is quite exhausting trying to operate all night and still drive the

>> narrow winding road (1.5 to 2 hours each way) to and from the site every

>> day, but we are trying to keep it up as long as we can. Thanks for your

>> cooperation, and we hope to be able to provide a new DXCC to many of you!

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> GL and VY 73, Lance

>> 

>> --

>> Lance Collister, W7GJ

>> (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, 

>> TX5K)

>> P.O. Box 73

>> Frenchtown, MT 59834-0073

>> USA

>> TEL: (406) 626-5728

>> QTH: DN27ub

>> URL:  <http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj

>> Skype: lanceW7GJ

>> 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

>> 

>> Interested in 6m EME? Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME 

>> email

>> group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web page 

>> (above)!

>> 

>> _______________________________________________

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>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> _______________________________________________

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> 

> 

> -- 

> Lance Collister, W7GJ

> (ex WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8, E51SIX, 3D2LR, 5W0GJ, E6M, 

> TX5K, KH8/W7GJ)

> P.O. Box 73

> Frenchtown, MT   59834-0073

> USA

> TEL: (406) 626-5728

> QTH: DN27ub

> URL:  <http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj> http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj

> Skype: lanceW7GJ

> 2m DXCC #11/6m DXCC #815

> 

> Interested in 6m EME?  Ask me about subscribing to the Magic Band EME

> email group, or just fill in the request box at the bottom of my web

> page (above)!

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Moon-Net posting and subscription instructions are at 

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