Thanks Morris I emailed bottom one and have now emailed the Japanese one now thanks I have also tried several others and once I get replies will post more info Stu MM0BSM =Found these with google search .. good luck http://knight.squares.net/kenkyu/device-e.html ..... ???? http://www.advancedsemiconductor.com/index.html .....$42.00 ea. Morris WA4MIT