[W8MWA] Road map to the future?

Dean Thompson deanot26508 at gmail.com
Fri Sep 25 14:33:23 EDT 2015 

I like that idea, i like it very much..

On Friday, September 25, 2015, Josh Prichard <wvunderground at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm very biased here as I would like to see DMR go on UHF and the Fusion
> go on VHF then link the two repeaters later on down the road.
>
> I'll throw this into the mix as I know its a new rc210....
>
> http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/index.php/adr-interface
>
> Whatever the club thinks we should do will be ok though.  Can always find
> repeater space later on if anyone does want DMR.
>
>
> Also could someone perhaps go into the admin panel of this list and change
> the reply options to reply to the list instead of the poster.  That way we
> can at least see all the replies?
>
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> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Josh Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone:
>>
>> According to the Yaesu website the special price on Fusion repeaters is
>> available through September 30:
>> https://www.yaesu.com/pdf/DR1-X_Installation_Program_Final.pdf
>>
>> I think this is something the club should likely persue - at the very
>> least to get something up and running on the UHF frequencies allocated to
>> our repeater infrastructure.
>>
>> The time frame is pretty tight on this so we would need to move quickly
>> to get this application submitted prior to the deadline.
>>
>> What does everyone think about trying to get in on this special price?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Josh
>>
>>
>> Josh Smith
>> KD8HRX
>> email/jabber:  juicewvu at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>
>> phone:  304.237.9369(c)
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Dean Thompson <deanot26508 at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','deanot26508 at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> The remote base is what i had in mind, Ido have a 100% signal at my qth.
>>>
>>> Just for information.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 25, 2015, Josh Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','juicewvu at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Josh,
>>>>
>>>> See my replies inline as before.
>>>>
>>>> Josh Smith
>>>> KD8HRX
>>>> email/jabber:  juicewvu at gmail.com
>>>> phone:  304.237.9369(c)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 2:05 AM, Josh Prichard <wvunderground at gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So what about linking the echolink in via remote base?  At least this
>>>>> way if it was totally screwed up someone could key up the repeater and kill
>>>>> the remote radio link until it was stable again.  I don't know if Dean is
>>>>> close enough to have a good remote base signal but something to think
>>>>> about.  Otherwise.... echolink has a remote webpage that we can setup so
>>>>> any of the club members can log in and kill the link as well.  It would be
>>>>> very easy to setup and distribute the login info to everyone.  We could
>>>>> probably even setup a mini server with power control to kill the echolink
>>>>> radio power in case of extreme emergency.  Multiple ways to control this
>>>>> link.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A remote base sounds like a fantastic idea for linking our repeater to
>>>> echo link to me.  I'm not sure if Deans QTH is a good one for this or not,
>>>> but I'll bet we can find a member or two that are in a good location if
>>>> Dean is not.
>>>>
>>>> Randy - Can you weigh in on your thoughts of linking the repeater to
>>>> echolink via a remote base as the repeater trustee?
>>>>
>>>> Bill - Can you weigh in from a technical standpoint.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm going to revisit the VHF fusion repeater thing as I have been
>>>>> reading more info on it.  As of what I know now.... there are a few ways we
>>>>> could go about this.  Since the vhf repeater is old it most likely needs
>>>>> replaced.  The club could get a fusion repeater and let it replace the vhf
>>>>> repeater.  We can run the fusion repeater in a few different modes.
>>>>> Analog only in / Analog only out
>>>>> Analog and Digital in / Analog out*
>>>>> Analog and Digital in / Analog and Digital out**
>>>>>
>>>>> *In the analog and digital in / analog out mode a user can either talk
>>>>> digital or analog into the repeater and come out analog only on the output
>>>>> so everyone would always hear everything.  This would allow digital users
>>>>> better input into the repeater and should keep analog users the same as it
>>>>> is now.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Analog and Digital in / Analog and Digital out - in this mode if a
>>>>> group of people are talking in digital would be digital in / digital out.
>>>>> Analog users wouldn't hear anything as long as they have a ctcss tone set
>>>>> on receive.  Now if an analog user wants to talk.... when they key up the
>>>>> repeater.... the repeater will go into the digital and analog in / analog
>>>>> out mode and stay that way until a timeout has happened where the analog
>>>>> user has stopped talking.  Then it'll be back in analog and digital in /
>>>>> analog and digital out.
>>>>>
>>>>> My new suggestion would be to replace the current vhf machine with a
>>>>> fusion repeater and allow the analog and digital in / analog out mode.
>>>>> This would at least get a new repeater in place of the old equipment and
>>>>> still allow all users to participate.  From what I gather yaesu still has
>>>>> the 500$ deal going for clubs.  This would beat putting money into an old
>>>>> repeater.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To provide a little more detail on our repeater.  The controller is
>>>> pretty new (less than 3 years) but the radios are pretty old but have
>>>> proven to be very reliable.  I'm not sure that a replacement of the entire
>>>> system is warranted.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then perhaps start to build out a UHF network on DMR.  I'm aiming at
>>>>> UHF for the fact that the new dongles coming out for DMR hotspots are UHF
>>>>> based.  DMR radios aren't dual band yet.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now to follow up on some of your other questions I never answered.
>>>>> I'm from Logan right now which is right over the hill from Beckley.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I know where Logan is, I've been there more than once, though I have
>>>> not been there for several years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I have been talking on the Ivy Knob dmr repeater after work.  I run up
>>>>> the top of a hill and talk away.  Right now the cheapest HT for dmr would
>>>>> be the TYT md-380 I believe.  It is what I'm using at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Walkie-Talkie-TYT-MD-380-UHF-5W-Digital-Mobile-DMR-2-Way-Radio-1xUSB-Cable-US-/301693099071?hash=item463e4f5c3f
>>>>>
>>>>> Just make sure to get one with a programming cable.  They have a
>>>>> codeplug avail on the NCPRN site that includes the Beckley repeaters.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.ncprn.net/downloads.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the links.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As for linking digital repeaters.... its all internet based now days
>>>>> which is why it would be a plus to have internet at the repeater sites.
>>>>> The wireless link that BIll is working on now is ideal.  I run a wireless
>>>>> link at 5ghz at my current workplace and haven't had one hickup other than
>>>>> a switch that couldn't handle the mac tables from so many devices going
>>>>> through it.  Running the Ubiquiti Nanostation NSM5 at both locations and it
>>>>> maxes a 75meg connection out.  Voice data is nowhere near this throughput.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've used ubiquiti equipment and am a big fan as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 11:32 PM, Joshua Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean,
>>>>>> Thanks for your input. Please see my comments again they are inline
>>>>>> below.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 73,
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Josh Smith
>>>>>> KD8HRX
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Email/jabber: juicewvu at gmail.com
>>>>>> Phone: 304.237.9369(c)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 22, 2015, at 10:35 PM, Dean Thompson <deanot26508 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not seeing any replies from other club members on this,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I for one am interested in getting my echolink box set up on a local
>>>>>> repeater, if not this one I will try the WVU repeater.  Echolink does have
>>>>>> some advantages, example being... One of our hams moved away just over a
>>>>>> year ago, would it not be nice for him to stop in and say hi on the Monday
>>>>>> net?.  As Josh mentioned, it is also nice for when we are out of town.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree echo link has some nice use sees and I would like to see it
>>>>>> available on the MWA repeater. Although I think the ability to
>>>>>> break/reestablish this link from the repeater side and I am not sure what
>>>>>> is involved in making that a possibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need more feedback on this, more replies as this affects us all in
>>>>>> some way or another.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We definitely need feedback from everyone in the club. Most
>>>>>> importantly from Bill(WR8S) as the technical person who takes care of the
>>>>>> repeater and from Randy (N8OZY) as the repeater trustee.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hopefully they are able to weigh in on this via email but if not we
>>>>>> have a good topic to address in the October meeting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Josh has made some good points, and I look forward to moving forward
>>>>>> on some of these ideas.  First we need to either replace the aged repeater
>>>>>> or repair it, having a digital mode would be nice also.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree our number one priority needs to be in repairing the repeater
>>>>>> (even if that means replacing some of the equipment). I also would like to
>>>>>> see us have a digital repeater of some sort in addition to our existing
>>>>>> analog repeater NOT in place of as I think asking everyone to replace their
>>>>>> existing equipment just to access the repeater would be a disaster for the
>>>>>> club.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the situation for a new repeater? can we afford one? do we
>>>>>> need to chip in, raise some funding somehow?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we need to first get the existing repeater back to its
>>>>>> optimal condition and see what that does to our funds. Then we can start to
>>>>>> plan for expanding our repeater system - hopefully into the digital space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=249&encProdID=4105F1B8AE65079CAD2D26735B83B302
>>>>>> this is the system fusion repeater if anyone is interested, and I just
>>>>>> noticed it uses C4FM which is what my Yeasu 991 can run, so that is a plus
>>>>>> for me.. lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That seems like a good deal on the repeater. Unfortunately I believe
>>>>>> most of the expenses with building out a new repeater will be in the
>>>>>> ancillary things that go along with it - antennas, feed line, duplexes,
>>>>>> filters, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know if this is bogus or not, but the above repeater is $500
>>>>>> on a club special, see here
>>>>>> http://www.radioinc.com/oscmax/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=3791
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope to see you all at the next meeting, Josh and Josh, keep up the
>>>>>> chat, I feel some headway is being made.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again for the input.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dean (KD8YNY)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 9:02 PM, Josh Smith <juicewvu at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello Josh,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please see my comments inline again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Josh Smith
>>>>>>> KD8HRX
>>>>>>> email/jabber:  juicewvu at gmail.com
>>>>>>> phone:  304.237.9369(c)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 4:31 PM, Josh Prichard <
>>>>>>> wvunderground at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks Josh....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping I didn't come off as harsh as that was not my
>>>>>>>> intention.  Sometimes I do have problems getting my thoughts out
>>>>>>>> correctly.  If so I do apologize.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You didn't come across as harsh.  No need to apologize.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the club I'll join.  It seems like a club with good users.
>>>>>>>> Sure there is a difference of opinion but that is any club.  Everyone was
>>>>>>>> nice and friendly.  I think the club has a good future.  Just gotta get
>>>>>>>> everyone back to being excited about it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you for joining our club.  I think you'll find its a good club
>>>>>>> and worth the investment of your time and effort.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Being everything to everyone is kinda hard to do in a club
>>>>>>>> setting.  Everyone has different ideas on what the club should be.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The future for the repeaters and etc... it would be nice to hear
>>>>>>>> some activity on the repeater.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree it would be nice to hear some activity outside of the Monday
>>>>>>> evening net, I have no room to talk here though because I am as guilty as
>>>>>>> anyone of not using the repeater.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   I know with cell phones, ham radio is starting to taper off on
>>>>>>>> usage.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I agree with this with respect to the local repeater as a means to
>>>>>>> foster communication amongst hams in the local area.  I also think that the
>>>>>>> ubiquity of emaill/instant messaging/text messaging has as much or more to
>>>>>>> do with this than the cell phone does.  Just think 10 or 15 years ago we
>>>>>>> would probably be having this discussion on the repeater instead of over
>>>>>>> email.  I don't necessarily think this is all a bad thing though.  At least
>>>>>>> email is easier to store and keep a record of for later reference.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the reason why I was talking about echolink.  Since I'm not
>>>>>>>> usually in town but will be moving in soon.... I had a want to talk on the
>>>>>>>> local repeater up there.  Would have been nice to be able to remote into
>>>>>>>> the repeater and strike up a convo about local stuff and start to make
>>>>>>>> friends.  If someone is traveling that would also be a nice addition as
>>>>>>>> well.  Echolink is now on smart phones so one can download it and boom
>>>>>>>> instant radio that works away from home.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Echolink is definitely interesting and a useful mode.  I've
>>>>>>> experimented with it in the past and useful to access a local repeater when
>>>>>>> away from the area.  Unfortunately as you've noticed there isn't much
>>>>>>> activity on our repeater currently so I'm not sure how much luck you would
>>>>>>> have had striking up a conversation even if it were accessible via echolink.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As of right now the digital repeaters in WV are as follows.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *DMR which is separated into two different link networks.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *DMR-MARC network - uses motorola dmr repeaters - has been active
>>>>>>>> in the states for some time*
>>>>>>>> Bluefield, WV 1 repeater
>>>>>>>> Beckley, WV 3 spread out to cover a lot of area.
>>>>>>>> See here for current map:  http://www.dmr-marc.net/repeaters.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the information and the link to the map.  I am glad to
>>>>>>> know there is a presence in the Beckley area as it is where I am originally
>>>>>>> from and still travel there often to visit family.  I may try to pick up a
>>>>>>> cheap DMR HT before I head down there the next time and try to access
>>>>>>> them.  Do you have any recommendations for such an HT?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *DMRPlus - uses hytera dmr repeaters*
>>>>>>>> None yet in WV but its just now getting started in the states.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *FUSION*
>>>>>>>> Clarksburg 1 repeater
>>>>>>>> Pt. Pleasant 1 repeater
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *DSTAR*
>>>>>>>> Mount Hope 1 repeater
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Digital offers some nice features.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's definitely more bandwidth efficient and I also like the slow
>>>>>>> speed data and text messaging capabilities present in most digital
>>>>>>> solutions.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In doing some more research on fusion... i agree with you that it
>>>>>>>> would be nice to leave the current analog system online and put a digital
>>>>>>>> system in place as another repeater.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think this is a requirement not just a nice to have.  Like it or
>>>>>>> not Analog has too large of a footprint to just do away with anytime in the
>>>>>>> near future and its proven technology.  I know our repeater has been used
>>>>>>> more than once to coordinate communications to areas otherwise cut off due
>>>>>>> to winter storms even as recently as 4 or 5 years ago.  I was
>>>>>>> (un)fortunately out of town when that storm hit and was not able to
>>>>>>> participate so someone else on the list can provide more details of this
>>>>>>> event.  I think until such time as everyone has digital radios and the
>>>>>>> system has proven itself to be as reliable there will be a lot of
>>>>>>> reluctance to get rid of the current analog system.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To have the fusion in place of the analog system you would have to
>>>>>>>> run the output of the fusion in analog mode and the input in dual
>>>>>>>> digital/analog mode.  That would almost defeat the purpose of digital as it
>>>>>>>> adds an analog route in.  Sooooo my new suggestion based on the info I have
>>>>>>>> acquired.  Install a new fusion repeater and then perhaps link it into the
>>>>>>>> analog system later on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like this idea.  Unfortunately I do not know if space is available
>>>>>>> at the current repeater site or if we'd have to look for an alternate site
>>>>>>> to host a new repeater.  It's something we should discuss as we go forward
>>>>>>> with deciding what the future of our repeater looks like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or perhaps start with a UHF DMR repeater then move to fusion a
>>>>>>>> little later on.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We currently have an analog repeater that is in some form of
>>>>>>> disrepair.  I really like the idea of making our UHF frequencies our
>>>>>>> "experimental" repeater and I think we should investigate using any/all of
>>>>>>> the digital repeater modes on this frequency.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DMR we could also link into the analog vhf repeater.  Would be nice
>>>>>>>> to get a dmr repeater on the air at the university club as well..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you might have noticed from some of the discussions the
>>>>>>> university club is pretty much defunct right now but Dr. Vanscoy is trying
>>>>>>> very hard to revive it.  Hopefully she is successful and if she is we could
>>>>>>> embark on a project like this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Could use the same talkgroups on both repeaters and have a wide
>>>>>>>> link network started.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just curious - I know that with some of the digital modes (DSTAR in
>>>>>>> particular) linking over the air is not possible and all links must be over
>>>>>>> the internet.  Is the same true for DMR or is it possible to link multiple
>>>>>>> DMR repeaters using only RF?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So yes.... I will try to put together an info packet/presentation
>>>>>>>> on the digital systems for the next meeting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you very much for trying to put this together.  The next
>>>>>>> meeting will be on October 20.  Would it be possible to let me know by the
>>>>>>> 13th if you will be able to put together the presentation or not so we have
>>>>>>> a bit of time to put together an alternate?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm hoping my DMR dongle has came in by then.  If so I'll setup a
>>>>>>>> DMR hotspot and let the group take a test drive.  I have been doing a few
>>>>>>>> months worth of research into different digital modes so I do have some
>>>>>>>> info handy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great.  I am very interested in theys technology and would love to
>>>>>>> see it in action.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As a side note.... how this reflector is setup.... its a tad hard
>>>>>>>> to carry on a good conversation.  If you don't reply to the reflector you
>>>>>>>> just reply to the user and no one else really sees the reply.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The reflector is set up pretty much identically to any email list I
>>>>>>> have ever used and having been in the IT industry for a while I have
>>>>>>> subscribed and continue to subscribe to lots of mailing lists.  Looking
>>>>>>> back at my reply it went to both you (in the to: field) and the list (in
>>>>>>> the cc: field) and looking at my email archive I did receive my reply via
>>>>>>> the list so all subscribers should have seen it.  Please let me know if you
>>>>>>> have any specific questions regarding the list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm in the process of setting up a DMR website that will hopefully
>>>>>>>> group some info together for those interested in DMR and possibly other
>>>>>>>> digital modes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great, I've spent some time reading a bit about DMR the past few
>>>>>>> evenings and while there is a lot of information out there it seems to be
>>>>>>> scattered all over the interwebs.  A central place that collects a lot of
>>>>>>> this information would be very valuable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm adding a forum in as well.  I have a club forum setup on there
>>>>>>>> as well that is only avail to members of the club if anyone would be
>>>>>>>> interested.  Otherwise perhaps we can setup a forum on the w8mwa page.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   It would allow everyone to discuss club business in a better
>>>>>>>> format and have separate areas for members and non members of the club.
>>>>>>>> Plus an area to talk about anything and everything under the sun.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's just my personal preference but I much prefer mailing lists for
>>>>>>> this type of discussion but by no means does my preference cary any weight.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is mine.... http://forum.dmrwv.com
>>>>>>>> It's a work in progress as I just started it.
>>>>>>>> Also if help is needed with the website I would be more than happy
>>>>>>>> to help.  I have quite a bit of experience with websites etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you very much for the offer.  Randy Crowe (N80ZY) and Bill
>>>>>>> Shultz (W8RS) are the primary care takers of the website.  They are both
>>>>>>> subscribed to the list and I'm sure will be reading this.  But do mention
>>>>>>> it to them during the next club meeting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> W8MWA mailing list
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>>>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>>> W8MWA mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>>>
>>
>>
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