[Vintage-Audio] Audiophool Cables

Thu Mar 6 22:05:26 EST 2008

Hey Wolfman Bob,

Now what about these six foot long, gold plated RCA type male plug, 14 gauge 
multiple strand wire audio cables I am using from the Sony GX-80 ES amp to 
the Sony ZA5 ES DAT deck? I have them for both the input and the output.

I am also using another set from the amplifier to the Sony CDRW deck and 
back to the amp.

As you know, these are not cheap, nor are they super expensive either.

It was my thinking when I purchased them, that since I was using the Sony 
"ES" series, supposedly the best Sony makes, that I should also be using a 
better grade of input/output cables then one could purchase at any audio 
store for $9.95 a pair, or less! Less loss, less corrosion and improved 
conductivity with the gold plating and lower resistance due to the 14 gauge 
wire. So I talked myself into buying them!

Actually, Sony sold me defective DAT tapes, I called management in Flordia, 
lodged a formal complaint with a human etc. Much to my surprise, and 
delight, Sony sent me a twelve pack of new top quality 120 minute DAT tapes! 
They also included four of the six foot gold plated cables!

So Bob, am I deceiving myself into thinking that these gold plated 
connectors on the heavy duty 14 gauge cables actually improves the audio 
over the el cheapo Dollar Audio Store cables? Or do they truly help?

Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
dfischer at usol.com
HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
http://www.w9wze.net
HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
hhrp.w9wze.net

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "wolfbob" <wolfbob at csnsys.com>
To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back" 
<vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Audiophool Cables

> Depends upon the speller. If you are trying to make fun at these skilled 
> folk then all kinds of spelling seems to appear. Like Awed-eye-oh-file. or 
> Audeofylle. But I think the common spelling is Audiophile. I scoffed these 
> folk for quite a while as I am a resistor/capacitor type engineer, but 
> them folks can hear things that are not in any graphs or equations.
>
> My problem is so what.
>
> Just what are you trying to do with your music listening? I can think of 
> several different things and I am sure there are nearly as many as there 
> are listeners.
>
> If you are trying to get a sound that sounds just like the musicians would 
> sound like if they were in your house, good luck. Even this has a couple 
> variations. what if the music was presented in a stadium with several 
> thousand watts and several thousand people, or in a theater with all of 
> those acoustics and noises, or in a tightly controlled studio with room 
> and other stuff electronically added? I have a friend who wanted his music 
> to sound like a rock concert. His audio system consisted of a reel-to-reel 
> tape deck or three a 25 watt amp and a 15 inch single channel Klipsch-horn 
> speaker. He could (and did) break windows at 25 ft. in his apartment (yes, 
> he lived in a second story apartment).
>
> If one wants any fidelity from recorded media then you have to go a very 
> long way. ALL RECORDINGS ARE COMPRESSED. Yes, all, even master tapes. You 
> will not find any source for the dynamic range you can experience in a 
> live exposure. There is a couple good and a couple bad reasons for this 
> corruptions. In the vinyl world, the music had to be limited to prevent 
> the grooves from either being too deep or two wide (stereo) and to reduce 
> excursions and allow tonearm/needles to stay in the grooves. When it 
> became popular to play recorded material in a car with all of its 
> background noises, they found that half of the music couldn't be heard 
> over the ambient noise, so instead of putting compressors in the car 
> equipment, they simply raised the average sound level on the recording, 
> keeping the peaks the same (this is called compression). The radio 
> stations loved it as now they could keep their loudness up, a thing tat 
> seems to attract listeners. Radio stations add another 10 or more dB 
> compression to the recorded material anyway.
>
> Who does this crime to the music? The mixer does most of it as he is 
> operating under some proven guidelines that sell music. The engineer does 
> some as he must keep the recorded material within the limits of the 
> recording equipment, but a good tape deck has 60-80 dB dynamic range and a 
> DAT has over 120dB so that doesn't explain the 15-20 dB resulting dynamic 
> range of rock CDs (It only gets up to 30-40 dB for good classical CDs). As 
> Duane can hear a flea fart (let's say this is around the limit of 
> audibility of 0 dBSPL) and a full orchestra blast of say 105 dBSPL and 
> throw in a few more for real life and you would like to get around 120 dB 
> of dynamic range out of the recording if you are trying to make the 
> orchestra appear in your front room.
>
> Another issue is that the CD is set up so the loudest part is mashed down 
> so the average is about 10 dB below the max. This is not necessary anymore 
> as the CD recording and playback hardware can now use the full dynamic 
> range of the CD (in the beginning the artifacts and crap in the lower bits 
> could be heard so they simply moved the music up some 20 or more dB, 
> mashing the top end, and it is still there today although the artifacts 
> and noises in the lower bits are gone).
>
> An interesting hunk of lore and illustrative of the power of the mixer in 
> recordings is in the making of the recording of the theme song from the 
> movie Shaft. The movie is fine, but the CD sound was mixed before the 
> movie was released and the sound is quite different. The cymbal crashes at 
> the lead-in and throughout the recording define the music rhythm and are 
> the key to the entire piece. Distinctive and very rememberable, but as 
> lore has it was a mistake. The mixer twisted his knobs until the sound was 
> right to his ears, and he has great ears, but the tweeters were burned out 
> in his studio monitors resulting in some 20 dB more highs than he heard. 
> Great story, but not too probable...yet...
>
> WBob, WB6JPI
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Duane Fischer, W8DBF" <dfischer at usol.com>
> To: <w9ran at oneradio.net>; "Vintage home and professional audio equipment 
> from 1975 back" <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 5:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vintage-Audio] Audiophool Cables
>
>
>> Question: How is the much malined term for a serious audio devotee known 
>> as an "Audiophyle" actually spelled?
>>
>>
>> Duane Fischer, W8DBF/WPE8CXO
>> dfischer at usol.com
>> HHI: Halligan's Hallicrafters International
>> http://www.w9wze.net
>> HHRP: Historic Halligan Radio Project
>> hhrp.w9wze.net
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Robert Nickels" <w9ran at oneradio.net>
>> To: "Vintage home and professional audio equipment from 1975 back" 
>> <vintage-audio at mailman.qth.net>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 11:02 AM
>> Subject: [Vintage-Audio] Audiophool Cables
>>
>>
>>> You've seen the fancy expensive cables and other crap the audiophooles 
>>> claim makes all the difference in the world. Of course we know this is 
>>> silly, but try to convince THEM of that!   This guy ( Dr. Bob Dean) who 
>>> has a pretty serious home theater and a brother who is an audio guru 
>>> decided to do just that.  Results are as expected.
>>>
>>> 73,  Bob W9RAN
>>>
>>> I'm so sorry, but I do not buy into 90% of the hype brought to us 
>>> audiophiles by the commercial sector of our hobby and the home 
>>> entertainment industry at large. My brother, an audio engineering whiz 
>>> kid has proven to me what is real and what is not. Let me rehearse with 
>>> you an example of how he does this.
>>>
>>> We gathered up a 5 of our audio buddies. We took my "old" Martin Logan 
>>> SL-3 (not a bad speaker for accurate noise making) and hooked them up 
>>> with Monster 1000 speaker cables (decent cables according to the audio 
>>> press). We also rigged up 14 gauge, oxygen free Belden stranded copper 
>>> wire with a simple PVC jacket. Both were 2 meters long. They were 
>>> connected to an ABX switch box allowing blind fold testing. Volume 
>>> levels were set at 75 Db at 1000K Hz. A high quality recording of 
>>> smooth, trio, easy listening jazz was played (Piano, drums, bass). None 
>>> of us had heard this group or CD before, therefore eliminating biases. 
>>> The music was played. Of the 5 blind folded, only 2 guessed correctly 
>>> which was the monster cable. (I was not one of them). This was done 7 
>>> times in a row! Keeping us blind folded, my brother switched out the 
>>> Belden wire (are you ready for this) with simple coat hanger wire! 
>>> Unknown to me and our 12 audiophile buddies, prior to the ABX blind 
>>> test, he took apart four coat hangers, reconnected them and twisted them 
>>> into a pair of speaker cables. Connections were soldered. He stashed 
>>> them in a closet within the testing room so we were not privy to what he 
>>> was up to. This made for a pair of 2 meter cables, the exact length of 
>>> the other wires. The test was conducted. After 5 tests, none could 
>>> determine which was the Monster 1000 cable or the coat hanger wire. 
>>> Further, when music was played through the coat hanger wire, we were 
>>> asked if what we heard sounded good to us. All agreed that what was 
>>> heard sounded excellent, however, when A-B tests occurred, it was 
>>> impossible to determine which sounded best the majority of the time and 
>>> which wire was in use. Needless to say, after the blind folds came off 
>>> and we saw what my brother did, we learned he was right...most of what 
>>> manufactures have to say about their products is pure hype. It seems the 
>>> more they charge, the more hyped it is.
>>>
>>> So you see, my friend, that is why I have joined up with this site 
>>> (audioholics) because their approach to good sound and education to 
>>> acquire good sound and video is based on science, not hype, hypnotics, 
>>> placebo effects or wishful thinking.
>>>
>>> Excerpted from: 
>>> http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?s=97d4a3c39d247bf955a57b3953326a34&p=15412&postcount=28
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
>> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
>> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/vintage-audio
> List Administrator: Duane Fischer, W8DBF
> ** For Assistance: dfischer at usol.com **
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 
> 269.21.4/1309 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 6:50 PM
> 